New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

Thank you – Trump indicted! But were these actually the right charges? And look at the effing delay and cost!!

EatTheRich

President
I am in favor of enforcing the law regardless of political affiliation of the alleged criminal or the prosecutor or judge. If an indictment is obtained through our legal system, I am always willing to read it and examine it for merit then watch the trial.

To me, our legal system is quite interesting and our forefathers created an ingenious system which gives all sides a fair chance to prove and defend themselves in our courts. I really like our legal system here in America.

However as good as it is, I still believe there is a two tiered system which favors the very rich and powerful over the less affluent. The more we can do to even out that imbalance in our court system the better in my book.
I agree. I have concerns about this specific indictment because I reject gag order laws and laws against lying to police and the like on civil liberties grounds, and the other charges against the defendants in this case stemmed from their efforts to stymie this essentially illegitimate investigation. That's the same reason I consistently called for Jonathan Pollard to be freed although I had no sympathy with his political aims. But if you are going to have laws against willful retention, unauthorized dissemination, and concealment of classified documents, they should apply to Trump as to anyone else.

And, in any case, let's see what motives may be alleged for the crimes.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Photo Above - News Chopper 7 footage of the "surprise" federal raid on Mar-a-Largo last year.
Not shown - any progress on the Georgia election interference investigation.


Trump indicted in Mar-a-Lago classified documents investigation - The Washington Post

Finally!! Trump is indicted for something real. Not just a civil complaint about groping. Or being a venal example of American politics at its most offensive. Those classified docs wallpapering Trump's Mar-a-Largo mansion are getting their day in court. At least 7 of them, apparently. See link above (Warning - this is a free link to a Washington Post article – not a CNN or Fox video, in case you're disinclined to read).

There are probably grounds for exultation here. And I promise I will raise a champagne glass. But first, a few of those inevitable, pesky questions. And apologies for my poor previous predictions.

I HAD been conjecturing - more than once – that all these several criminal prosecutions were being “slow walked” by their respective Attorney Generals and Special Prosecutors. Delayed to ensure an indictment 30 seconds after Trump inevitably won the Republican Presidential Nomination next summer. Yesterdays indictment probably HELPS the republican party, and the DOJ should be commended for not abusing the legal system to play games with the presidential nomination process.

But still . . . there were ELEVEN THOUSAND classified documents? And nearly a year in the hands of the DOJ? How long does it take to confirm that seven of these docs were actually classified? Apparently each one said so at the very top. Maybe a thousand people were needed to go through all those boxes and find which ones were the most egregious? I expect that now these docs must be produced as evidence in court. And we will finally get to see which ones Trump stole. Or at least the doc titles. That info has never been released. But still – 11,000 classified docs, reviewed for 11 months? This is like evaluating a cockroach infestation for a year before finally buying a roach motel.. At a cost of millions. In any case, we are all going to LOVE seeing which 7 documents got nominated for Oscars here.

Biden's own top secret doc - uncovered in private residences/garages/consulting offices will probably not be nominated. There were similar docs at Mike Pence's house. And a few other career politicians. Hillary Clinton, notably, escaped prosecution when government docs were found on democrat election laptops in 2016. Trump's apologists will try to create an equivalence. Not having seen ANY of the Trump or Biden documents in question, it would be wrong to say they ARE equivalent. Or to deny that they are. Point/Counterpoint – Yes, Trump had waaay more docs. Counterpoint – Biden's documents were found abandoned in bizarre, insecure places like his garage, and empty offices at a Democrat consulting firm. This is the debate pundits worried about as soon as the Biden docs surfaced. "How can we charge one guy but not the other?" Well, the DOJ apparently found a way. That's what having hundreds of staff attorneys and a full year to debate the situation will get you.

Again – let me reiterate – the DOJ charges against Trump are (almost) timely and seem entirely appropriate. People suspected of crimes should get their day in court - instead of becoming sensational media fodder for years. The US constitution guarantees the accused a swift and fair trial.

Now here's my second question: (but no apology) Why these docs, and NOT the Georgia election interference, are the 7 layer beefy burrito? I can't think of a single more egregious example of undermining elections in American history. A politician making repeated demands to “find” votes that were never cast. This is without a doubt a crime. There is indisputable evidence, in recordings and emails and other docs. Beyond any credible defense. Trump attorneys can't concoct a claim these calls were an oversight, or an attempt to help prepare for a post-presidential tell all book.

Please – let's not get allow the "yes but" crowd to hijack this post into OTHER examples of election fraud. The dead habitually voting in Chicago. Gerrymandered districts, which a bipartisan supreme court majority just declared illegal. Voting without ID, by mail AND in person, months in advance, and failing to ensure a proper chain of custody on the ballots until counting day. Those are certainly an assault on election integrity too. But not nearly so well documented as the Trump/Georgia thing.

As an observer of history and politics, I would have expected the Geogia election fraud to bubble to the top, instead of umpteen thousand documents mishandled by who knows how many politicians. But that's just my old school allegiance to free and fair elections raising its hand.

Years of investigations. Thousands of attorneys. Millions of dollars. And finally, an indictment on 7 classified docs. Probably a hilariously bad cost/benefit equation, but the cause of justice has at least been advanced another step.

I just hope this means we can finally expect action in the four other ongoing investigations, where prosecutors have been too timid to either indict or dismiss.

Do your damn jobs, and stop wasting our tax dollars walking around in circles . . ..
Appears you ask the perfect question
ALAN DERSHOWITZ: The DOJ Just Opened Pandora’s Box (msn.com)
 

Addy

Rebuild With Biden!
Baloney, if it was politically motivated why did the investigators give Trump the luxury of waiting so long (over a year) to return the requested documents?
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Baloney, if it was politically motivated why did the investigators give Trump the luxury of waiting so long (over a year) to return the requested documents?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$The longer ya ride the pony the more it cost
I didn't know a POTUS had 2 years before having to hand over papers until I read the link I posted in #42
 

Addy

Rebuild With Biden!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$The longer ya ride the pony the more it cost
I didn't know a POTUS had 2 years before having to hand over papers until I read the link I posted in #42
I didn't know they had that long either, thanks.
I will have to scroll back and read it.
 

Addy

Rebuild With Biden!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$The longer ya ride the pony the more it cost
I didn't know a POTUS had 2 years before having to hand over papers until I read the link I posted in #42
I still couldn't find your comment on your link, sorry.
But this is what I just read.
_________________________________
They have the right to go to the National Archives anytime they want to read their materials while they're working on their memoirs. But they're not allowed to bring those classified materials home anymore to write their memoirs.
How presidents are supposed to handle classified
www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149296861/how-presidents-are-supposed-to-handle-classified-documents
www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149296861/how-
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
I still couldn't find your comment on your link, sorry.
But this is what I just read.
_________________________________
They have the right to go to the National Archives anytime they want to read their materials while they're working on their memoirs. But they're not allowed to bring those classified materials home anymore to write their memoirs.
How presidents are supposed to handle classified
View attachment 75147
www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149296861/how-
Thx
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Guess what Rick….The Republican party is also “the party of government”…And these days they seem to be “muy compatico” with Nazi’s and other authoritarian type governments…..And neither of these parties are protected from their members being indicted or convicted of crimes. Your preferred party is as bad or worse than the Democrats….At this point much worse in my opinion.
Far less so - and this is evidenced by government employee unions UNIQUELY vying for Democrats for decades and decades. It is also evidenced by Democrats generally getting a pass when they break the law. It ain’t close.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Far less so - and this is evidenced by government employee unions UNIQUELY vying for Democrats for decades and decades. It is also evidenced by Democrats generally getting a pass when they break the law. It ain’t close.
You make accusations of criminal acts, but fail miserably when it comes to actually documenting them.

Just what evidence is there in government employee unions supporting democrats?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Legislative Branch cannot prosecute. Impeachment is, and has always been a political process. Law enforcement, prosecution, and adjudication have not been.
Funny you didn't comment on all the right wingers here calling the Jan 6 committee a "Kangaroo Court".
 

Jack4freedom

Governor
Far less so - and this is evidenced by government employee unions UNIQUELY vying for Democrats for decades and decades. It is also evidenced by Democrats generally getting a pass when they break the law. It ain’t close.
I like unions and you are right, Democrats have generally supported them while Republicans and their thug Pinkertons have always tried to bust them. And you are right, it ain’t even close. At this point the Republicans are in a class by themselves when it comes to pure filthy scuminess, lawlessness, lies and anti-American traitorism. Also the old GOP road apples about the press picking on only the Repubs and now this utter crap about Democrats getting a pass on criminal activity while poor Republicans like Trump are being picked on is really laughable. How any intelligent person can say those things with a straight face is AMAZING to me. It just doesn’t fly Rick….
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
I like unions and you are right, Democrats have generally supported them while Republicans and their thug Pinkertons have always tried to bust them. And you are right, it ain’t even close. At this point the Republicans are in a class by themselves when it comes to pure filthy scuminess, lawlessness, lies and anti-American traitorism. Also the old GOP road apples about the press picking on only the Repubs and now this utter crap about Democrats getting a pass on criminal activity while poor Republicans like Trump are being picked on is really laughable. How any intelligent person can say those things with a straight face is AMAZING to me. It just doesn’t fly Rick….
Fine rationalization for politicization and manipulation of justice system to support desired outcomes. There’s simply no other explanation for the selective observation, review, indictment, and prosecution - over and over again. Then…you factor in the sensationalization/Hollywoodification of BUSTING DOORS DOWN in the dark with hellicopter spotlights - with CNN pre-informed to cover it live…

Yeah. Welcome to the Third World.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
What makes them the "party of government" when they consistently reduce growth in spending and the size of the bureaucracy when in power, and when the other major party is leading the drumbeat for more police repression?

Any previous former president (in modern times) who had acted as Trump allegedly did would have been charged five times as fast as Trump was. Anyone who was merely, say, a former secretary of state who had done so would almost certainly have been executed upon conviction for espionage. Especially if they were a Democrat.

Communists' strongest weapon is the truth. Which means that if one of two rival bourgeois parties defames the other with lies, I won't refrain from refuting the lies although the rival party's interest also happens to benefit from the truth being revealed.
Democrats are DECIDEDLY “the party of government”. Lifelong bureaucrats and civil service trough feeders align overwhelmingly to this and have for decades. Largesse…centralization, consolidation of functions, growth of grasp/reach - unwavering Democrat calling cards.

It’s inarguable.
 

Jack4freedom

Governor
Fine rationalization for politicization and manipulation of justice system to support desired outcomes. There’s simply no other explanation for the selective observation, review, indictment, and prosecution - over and over again. Then…you factor in the sensationalization/Hollywoodification of BUSTING DOORS DOWN in the dark with hellicopter spotlights - with CNN pre-informed to cover it live…

Yeah. Welcome to the Third World.
I am sure it has nothing to do with the brazen and unprecedented in your face lawlessness of Trump and the pack of scum he has surrounded himself with. Add to that their big mouths which are flapping constantly about what they are doing….You are right, this bunch was trying to drag us down into the third world where Putin has now dragged Russia. The only way to deter these ass holes and their enablers in congress and the media is to arrest, indict, convict and imprison them. Did you even bother to read the indictment?
 

Jack4freedom

Governor
Democrats are DECIDEDLY “the party of government”. Lifelong bureaucrats and civil service trough feeders align overwhelmingly to this and have for decades. Largesse…centralization, consolidation of functions, growth of grasp/reach - unwavering Democrat calling cards.

It’s inarguable.
More platitudes and political buzz phrases with absolutely nothing to back them up….Typical GOP bullshit….Been hearing it for decades from lying ass holes like Gingrich, Limbaugh, Hannity, Carlson etc…..
 

EatTheRich

President
Fine rationalization for politicization and manipulation of justice system to support desired outcomes. There’s simply no other explanation for the selective observation, review, indictment, and prosecution - over and over again. Then…you factor in the sensationalization/Hollywoodification of BUSTING DOORS DOWN in the dark with hellicopter spotlights - with CNN pre-informed to cover it live…

Yeah. Welcome to the Third World.
What makes you think that Democrats suspected equally credibly of committing equally serious crimes wouldn’t have been treated at least as harshly? Certainly in any case the primary targets of the politicized justice system are activists associated with the far left.
Democrats are DECIDEDLY “the party of government”. Lifelong bureaucrats and civil service trough feeders align overwhelmingly to this and have for decades. Largesse…centralization, consolidation of functions, growth of grasp/reach - unwavering Democrat calling cards.

It’s inarguable.
Yes, many public sector jobs require college educations, and college-educated people overwhelmingly support the Democratic Party, but that has more to do with the Republicans being the party of backwoods fundamentalists and low-information voters.
 
Top