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Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
And the spokesman for the Surrender Monkeys has responded....the Ukrainians have no right to a sovereign nation and let's not even contemplate how the aggressor should be forced to end the war....
They have a right to whatever they can achieve on their own. They were never really a sovereign nation for any length of time in their entire history. Let's not even contemplate the onslaught of WWIII. After all, you loved the first two so much, the third should give you a permanent orgasm.

Some might point out that the "aggressor" is the one who kept trying to shove NATO ever further up Putin's ass.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
If you want to do something about those who request asylum, change the law...

Poland was part of a military alliance with Britain and France.

What intervention preceded the Russian invasion of 2014? Handing out cookies to protesters in Kyiv?

You seem to think our efforts to help Ukraine have stopped us from doing anything else. Kinda useless allegation. In fact, Biden has a number of balls in the air....studen loans, illegal immigration, the election coming next year, the economy, conflict with China...

Oh yeah, he isn't done weaponizing the DoJ and arming the 800,000 new IRS agents...:rolleyes:
We both know that won't happen - the democrats (that you support) are all in on turning the USA into a third world sh*thole - just like the progressives in France:

france riots - Bing images

Nothing to see here, move along.

And it didn't prevent 10 million dying in WWII? Maybe these "mutual defense pacts" aren't all they are cracked up to be.

Funded and organised by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organisations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organised a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

That one failed. "There will be no Kostunica in Belarus," the Belarus president declared, referring to the victory in Belgrade.

But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

The operation - engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience - is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.


US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev | World news | The Guardian

Nothing to see here, move along.

Yeah, everyone agrees with you that Biden is doing a bang up job on all our problems:

Is Joe Biden's Approval Rating Getting Even Worse? Here's What Polls Show (msn.com)

Looks to me like all those balls he has in the air are kinda deflated.
 

EatTheRich

President
I didn't "fabricate" the number - I mislabeled it. OD deaths are over 100k and rising. People like you say "no big deal - we need to focus on Ukraine!!!" You say helping Ukraine isn't detracting from it but what I am saying is we are focused on Ukraine's problems and ignoring our own.

Russia has no interest, or perhaps more accurately, no ability to "occupy and annex Ukraine." But, for the sake of argument, what bad would come from it (for us)? The two situations are completely incomparable (but that sure doesn't stop you). What military alliance that was hostile to Germany was making moves on Czechoslovakia, Austria and Poland? There was none. You act like all our interventions and attention lavished on Ukraine should not factor into Russia's security efforts. You keep gaslighting about this issue by suggesting that there was (and is) no efforts to bring Ukraine into NATO. That is a lie:

NATO makes membership pledge to Ukraine as Zelenskiy drums up support (msn.com)

It would be worth our while to secure the border (obviously). Just because visa holders overstay their visas is no reason to allow anyone who shows up to gain residency.
Czechoslovakia was part of the Little Entente. Poland had a non-aggression treaty with the USSR and security guarantees from Britain and France. NATO expansion into Ukraine was a dead letter until Putin invaded, with the intent of annexation (not realizing how weak his military really was and that he would end up losing the war badly).
 

EatTheRich

President
I don't "back Putin." That is a crass communist slur.

Peace means, well, peace. Russian defeat means WWIII.
Seems to me the defeat of Russian imperialism (the citadel of world reaction) by an oppressed nation fighting to preserve its autonomy means a setback for the world’s warmongers (the same way the anti colonial rebellions during and after WWII helped keep the war hawks at bay until they were able to reverse their fortunes with the antilabor defeats of the last few decades). If you don’t back Putin, why do you identify the defeat of his regime with disaster rather than accurately seeing it as the swiftest route to a lasting peace between Ukraine and Russia? Since Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass, it is clear that any peace on Russia’s terms would mean a long, bloody series of battles to reverse the fortune of the war.
 

EatTheRich

President
They have a right to whatever they can achieve on their own. They were never really a sovereign nation for any length of time in their entire history. Let's not even contemplate the onslaught of WWIII. After all, you loved the first two so much, the third should give you a permanent orgasm.

Some might point out that the "aggressor" is the one who kept trying to shove NATO ever further up Putin's ass.
Not the country invading? Ukraine’s governments … those of Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yanukovych, Yushchenko, Poroshenko, and Zelenskyy alike … have sought NATO membership for Ukraine, but NATO never showed much interest (which made it a non-starter) until Russia invaded to overturn the popular rebellion and force their chosen strongman back on an unwilling nation.
 

EatTheRich

President
We both know that won't happen - the democrats (that you support) are all in on turning the USA into a third world sh*thole - just like the progressives in France:

france riots - Bing images

Nothing to see here, move along.

And it didn't prevent 10 million dying in WWII? Maybe these "mutual defense pacts" aren't all they are cracked up to be.

Funded and organised by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organisations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organised a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

That one failed. "There will be no Kostunica in Belarus," the Belarus president declared, referring to the victory in Belgrade.

But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

The operation - engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience - is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.


US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev | World news | The Guardian

Nothing to see here, move along.

Yeah, everyone agrees with you that Biden is doing a bang up job on all our problems:

Is Joe Biden's Approval Rating Getting Even Worse? Here's What Polls Show (msn.com)

Looks to me like all those balls he has in the air are kinda deflated.
The U.S. is rich because of an economy strengthened immensely by immigration, not racial demographics. Your long italicized excerpt is from 2004 … at any rate, it’s interesting that when Russia tries to help its favorite candidate win the U.S. election, you cast a friendly eye on their efforts, but when the U.S. tries to unite opposition forces in the former USSR against the personal rule of a strongman, suddenly that in itself is grounds for Russia to invade.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
We both know that won't happen - the democrats (that you support) are all in on turning the USA into a third world sh*thole - just like the progressives in France:

france riots - Bing images

Nothing to see here, move along.

And it didn't prevent 10 million dying in WWII? Maybe these "mutual defense pacts" aren't all they are cracked up to be.

Funded and organised by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organisations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organised a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

That one failed. "There will be no Kostunica in Belarus," the Belarus president declared, referring to the victory in Belgrade.

But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

The operation - engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience - is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.


US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev | World news | The Guardian

Nothing to see here, move along.

Yeah, everyone agrees with you that Biden is doing a bang up job on all our problems:

Is Joe Biden's Approval Rating Getting Even Worse? Here's What Polls Show (msn.com)

Looks to me like all those balls he has in the air are kinda deflated.
Your Guardian article is from 2004
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
They have a right to whatever they can achieve on their own. They were never really a sovereign nation for any length of time in their entire history. Let's not even contemplate the onslaught of WWIII. After all, you loved the first two so much, the third should give you a permanent orgasm.

Some might point out that the "aggressor" is the one who kept trying to shove NATO ever further up Putin's ass.
So if I take your logic to 1776...the colonies had rights to what they could achieve on their own. The French should not have butted in.
Right?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
We both know that won't happen - the democrats (that you support) are all in on turning the USA into a third world sh*thole - just like the progressives in France:

france riots - Bing images

Nothing to see here, move along.

And it didn't prevent 10 million dying in WWII? Maybe these "mutual defense pacts" aren't all they are cracked up to be.

Funded and organised by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organisations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organised a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

That one failed. "There will be no Kostunica in Belarus," the Belarus president declared, referring to the victory in Belgrade.

But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

The operation - engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience - is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.


US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev | World news | The Guardian

Nothing to see here, move along.

Yeah, everyone agrees with you that Biden is doing a bang up job on all our problems:

Is Joe Biden's Approval Rating Getting Even Worse? Here's What Polls Show (msn.com)

Looks to me like all those balls he has in the air are kinda deflated.
Milosevic was under indictment for war crimes...gee...why did he lose the election?
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
So if I take your logic to 1776...the colonies had rights to what they could achieve on their own. The French should not have butted in.
Right?
LOL! And what, ended up like Canada? You lefties looooved "woke" Canada and hated America's racist founders.
Right?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
LOL! And what, ended up like Canada? You lefties looooved "woke" Canada and hated America's racist founders.
Right?
As you said, they can have what they can achieve. Right? So the French should not have sent weapons and surely should not have sent troops. Or did you mean to limit that to Ukraine?

It was a stupid statement. Only nations with large armies are entitled to remain free of control by others?
 
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