Thanks Fareed Zakaria

[georgephillip]

2. The US isn't waging war in Yemen or Pakistan.
3. The US was attacked by forces that trained in Afghanistan.
4. We should not have invaded Iraq....how many of the casualties were caused by AQI or ISIS?

The US is backing the Saudi aggression in Yemen, and US drones strikes in Pakistan have been killing civilians for decades.
911 attacks were perpetrated by 15 Saudis who trained in Germany, Florida, and San Diego; have you discovered how two commercial airliners collapsed three steel-framed skyscrapers into their own footprints?
Virtually all of your crocodile tears for Iraqi victims of AQI and ISIS would have been unnecessary absent the illegal US invasion.

 

[middleview]

The US is backing the Saudi aggression in Yemen, and US drones strikes in Pakistan have been killing civilians for decades.
911 attacks were perpetrated by 15 Saudis who trained in Germany, Florida, and San Diego; have you discovered how two commercial airliners collapsed three steel-framed skyscrapers into their own footprints?
Virtually all of your crocodile tears for Iraqi victims of AQI and ISIS would have been unnecessary absent the illegal US invasion.
View attachment 75059

You blame the US for killing millions...as if all casualties are due to the US military actions. Then you switch to blaming the US for actions by allies...like the Saudis, as if we have control of what they do.

Did we do drone strikes against Taliban fighters in Pakistan? Yup. Were they involved in cross border raids into Afghanistan? Yup. Were there millions of Pakistanis killed by drone strikes?

Do you really think the hijackers were not directed by Bin Laden? They did not get support from Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? They were never in Afghanistan as part of Al Qaeda presence there?

Two airliners created a fire storm in the two towers. When one fell it gutted a building adjacent to it. It then collapsed, never having been touched by an airliner. I've posted pictures of the face of the building hit by falling debris.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

If the US and Canada were adversaries it would be a completely different set of circumstances.

Of course. Which is why the "circumstances" between Ukraine and Russia are "completely different." The idea that we can dictate to Russia what those circumstances are is why Ukraine is currently being "wrecked." Just as Mearsheimer, Burns, et al predicted.

 

[georgephillip]

You blame the US for killing millions...as if all casualties are due to the US military actions. Then you switch to blaming the US for actions by allies...like the Saudis, as if we have control of what they do.

When the US supplies weapons and intelligence to Saudi fascists, the blame for any civilian deaths is a shared one since our allies would never have possessed the instruments of terror to begin with.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Holy shit....you think the NSA was involved in the raid on your neighbors? Even if the NSA picked up access between a computer in the US and a porn site in Europe I'd bet they would not share that with the FBI.

Just for the sake of debate....how about if the guy sharing kiddie porn got caught...the FBI then used his computer to track those accessing and sharing porn with him?

WTF does public WIFI have to do with anything?

Again...if the NSA captured everything how would ransomware be possible?

That isn't what I was suggesting. You said their efforts would prevent all internet crime, and I was simply pointing out how wrong you were.

If the hackers were using a non-filtered public wifi (or hacked encrypted one) it would, of course, do them no good (unless they had had identifying communications).

If a hacker accesses a compromised network and downloads files using a public wifi, all they will get is a mac address. They can certainly track that mac address in an attempt to identify the hacker, but it is unlikely any sophisticated hacker would use that same machine on his home network to check the weather.

Reread the above. The NSA can see their communications coming and going on the target end, and can see where the (other) end node is, but if it is a public wifi, or a hacked one (as in the case of my neighbor) that is where the trail ends. If they are accepting bitcoin as the ransom, that isn't traceable either (as long as they access their wallet the same way they accessed their target).

 

[middleview]

The US is backing the Saudi aggression in Yemen, and US drones strikes in Pakistan have been killing civilians for decades.
911 attacks were perpetrated by 15 Saudis who trained in Germany, Florida, and San Diego; have you discovered how two commercial airliners collapsed three steel-framed skyscrapers into their own footprints?
Virtually all of your crocodile tears for Iraqi victims of AQI and ISIS would have been unnecessary absent the illegal US invasion.
View attachment 75059

All of your crocodile tears for victims in Ukraine would be unnecessary if Putin had not ordered an invasion.

 

[middleview]

Of course. Which is why the "circumstances" between Ukraine and Russia are "completely different." The idea that we can dictate to Russia what those circumstances are is why Ukraine is currently being "wrecked." Just as Mearsheimer, Burns, et al predicted.

Really? Did we dictate anything to Russia? Hell no. Russia attempted to dictate to Ukraine that they could not sign an agreement with the EU. They attempted to dictate to Ukraine that they could not join a defense agreement with NATO. Putin claimed Ukraine had no right to even be a sovereign nation.

Why is Ukraine being wrecked? Because Putin ordered an invasion.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Really? Did we dictate anything to Russia? Hell no. Russia attempted to dictate to Ukraine that they could not sign an agreement with the EU. They attempted to dictate to Ukraine that they could not join a defense agreement with NATO. Putin claimed Ukraine had no right to even be a sovereign nation.

Why is Ukraine being wrecked? Because Putin ordered an invasion.

Yes, we did - NATO has been "flirting" with Ukraine for over 20 years.

Which Mearsheimer predicted would be the outcome of the above.

 

[georgephillip]

All of your crocodile tears for victims in Ukraine would be unnecessary if Putin had not ordered an invasion.

Do you believe "Russia is pushing back not pushing first" in Ukraine?

"US Maj John Gavrilov (right) trains commanders of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion as part of a November 2017 foreign delegation."

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/01/war-us-weaponized-ukraine-russia/

 

[middleview]

Yes, we did - NATO has been "flirting" with Ukraine for over 20 years.

Which Mearsheimer predicted would be the outcome of the above.

"Flirting" with Ukraine is not mandating anything to Russia.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes, we did - NATO has been "flirting" with Ukraine for over 20 years.

Which Mearsheimer predicted would be the outcome of the above.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/01/war-us-weaponized-ukraine-russia/

"The US Army says: 'Ukraine has been a military partner of the U.S. dating back to the mid 1990s.'

"In 1998, America’s Special Operations Command Europe hosted a Special Operations Forces (SOF) conference in Stuttgart, Germany.

"The US Army reports: 'This benchmark even brought military personnel from Moldova, Georgia, and the Ukraine together to view U.S. SOF demonstrations and discuss opportunities for future Joint Combined Exchange Training (JCET) and Joint Contact Team Program (JCTP) events.”

"In June 2000, the US Marines reported that the Navy’s amphibious warship, the USS Trenton, had sailed from the Aegean to the Black Sea and had docked in Odessa (Ukraine).

"The 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) 'got to experience some of Odessa’s history first hand when they climbed the Prymorsky, or "Maritime’, Stairs.'”

"In addition to the pleasantries, 'the focus for MEU personnel and USS Trenton crew [was] NATO’s next exercise – Cooperative Partner 2000 (CP00) – of which Ukraine is the host nation.'"

"In addition to Ukraine’s participation in the US-led NATO training and exercises, Ukrainian soldiers fought in American-led wars.

"After 9/11, they participated in the occupation of Afghanistan via NATO’s so-called International Security Assistance Force. Ukrainian troops also aided the US-British-occupation of Iraq.

"In 2008, the Army lauded their comrades: 'More than 5,000 Ukrainian troops have served in Iraq during Ukraine’s five years of service in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.'"

 

[middleview]

Do you believe "Russia is pushing back not pushing first" in Ukraine?

"US Maj John Gavrilov (right) trains commanders of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion as part of a November 2017 foreign delegation."

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/01/war-us-weaponized-ukraine-russia/

Russian troops entered Ukraine in 2014. They were called the Green Men, and had no insignia identifying their unit or nationality....The Azov battalion didn't exist before then.

 

[middleview]

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/01/war-us-weaponized-ukraine-russia/

"The US Army says: 'Ukraine has been a military partner of the U.S. dating back to the mid 1990s.'

"In 1998, America’s Special Operations Command Europe hosted a Special Operations Forces (SOF) conference in Stuttgart, Germany.

"The US Army reports: 'This benchmark even brought military personnel from Moldova, Georgia, and the Ukraine together to view U.S. SOF demonstrations and discuss opportunities for future Joint Combined Exchange Training (JCET) and Joint Contact Team Program (JCTP) events.”

"In June 2000, the US Marines reported that the Navy’s amphibious warship, the USS Trenton, had sailed from the Aegean to the Black Sea and had docked in Odessa (Ukraine).

"The 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) 'got to experience some of Odessa’s history first hand when they climbed the Prymorsky, or "Maritime’, Stairs.'”

"In addition to the pleasantries, 'the focus for MEU personnel and USS Trenton crew [was] NATO’s next exercise – Cooperative Partner 2000 (CP00) – of which Ukraine is the host nation.'"

"In addition to Ukraine’s participation in the US-led NATO training and exercises, Ukrainian soldiers fought in American-led wars.

"After 9/11, they participated in the occupation of Afghanistan via NATO’s so-called International Security Assistance Force. Ukrainian troops also aided the US-British-occupation of Iraq.

"In 2008, the Army lauded their comrades: 'More than 5,000 Ukrainian troops have served in Iraq during Ukraine’s five years of service in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.'"

Somewhere, in your post, there must be some indication of an imminent threat of Ukrainian invasion of Russia...right?

 

[Raoul_Luke]

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/01/war-us-weaponized-ukraine-russia/

"The US Army says: 'Ukraine has been a military partner of the U.S. dating back to the mid 1990s.'

"In 1998, America’s Special Operations Command Europe hosted a Special Operations Forces (SOF) conference in Stuttgart, Germany.

"The US Army reports: 'This benchmark even brought military personnel from Moldova, Georgia, and the Ukraine together to view U.S. SOF demonstrations and discuss opportunities for future Joint Combined Exchange Training (JCET) and Joint Contact Team Program (JCTP) events.”

"In June 2000, the US Marines reported that the Navy’s amphibious warship, the USS Trenton, had sailed from the Aegean to the Black Sea and had docked in Odessa (Ukraine).

"The 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) 'got to experience some of Odessa’s history first hand when they climbed the Prymorsky, or "Maritime’, Stairs.'”

"In addition to the pleasantries, 'the focus for MEU personnel and USS Trenton crew [was] NATO’s next exercise – Cooperative Partner 2000 (CP00) – of which Ukraine is the host nation.'"

"In addition to Ukraine’s participation in the US-led NATO training and exercises, Ukrainian soldiers fought in American-led wars.

"After 9/11, they participated in the occupation of Afghanistan via NATO’s so-called International Security Assistance Force. Ukrainian troops also aided the US-British-occupation of Iraq.

"In 2008, the Army lauded their comrades: 'More than 5,000 Ukrainian troops have served in Iraq during Ukraine’s five years of service in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.'"

Yeah, it would be like Mexico doing joint military drills with Iran (or North Korea). I'm sure he'd have no problem with that.

 

[georgephillip]

Yeah, it would be like Mexico doing joint military drills with Iran (or North Korea). I'm sure he'd have no problem with that.

Or if Putin's minions had been handing out cookies here:

 

[middleview]

Yeah, it would be like Mexico doing joint military drills with Iran (or North Korea). I'm sure he'd have no problem with that.

Venezuela did have Russian bombers and Russian troops in country. Did we invade?

Did you forget when Iran sent navy ships to visit Venezuela, Brazil and Panama?

 

[georgephillip]

Somewhere, in your post, there must be some indication of an imminent threat of Ukrainian invasion of Russia...right?

Russians' of a certain age are probably more concerned with another American (capitalist) invasion like the one Yeltsin provided:

"But in back of it all, what makes the umbrage of elite media so hard to stomach is the hypocrisy.

"This is, after all, the same elite media that supports outsider-induced 'regime change' anywhere and everywhere they see an official enemy, from Iraq to Honduras to Libya to Syria—and wait, what’s this?

"A cover from Time magazine (7/15/96): a chipper Boris Yeltsin holding an American flag, and the line 'Yanks to the Rescue!

"The Secret Story of How American Advisers Helped Yeltsin Win.'

"You can make 'one law for me, another for thee” your credo, but you can’t be too surprised when others are unimpressed.'"

https://fair.org/home/hypocrisy-of-russia-did-it-stories-is-hard-to-stomach/

 

[middleview]

Russians' of a certain age are probably more concerned with another American (capitalist) invasion like the one Yeltsin provided:

"But in back of it all, what makes the umbrage of elite media so hard to stomach is the hypocrisy.

"This is, after all, the same elite media that supports outsider-induced 'regime change' anywhere and everywhere they see an official enemy, from Iraq to Honduras to Libya to Syria—and wait, what’s this?

"A cover from Time magazine (7/15/96): a chipper Boris Yeltsin holding an American flag, and the line 'Yanks to the Rescue!

"The Secret Story of How American Advisers Helped Yeltsin Win.'

"You can make 'one law for me, another for thee” your credo, but you can’t be too surprised when others are unimpressed.'"

https://fair.org/home/hypocrisy-of-russia-did-it-stories-is-hard-to-stomach/

Yeltsin hired political advisors who had worked on US campaigns. So what?

Libya had a civil war because Qaddafi ordered his mercenaries to fire on demonstrators. Can you show US influence in fomenting the demonstrations? Oh, hell no. So the US, France and Britain got involved to avert the slaughter Libyans who were against Qaddafi.

Pretty much the same in Syria....Assad ordered his military to open fire on peaceful demonstrators. Many Syrian soldiers and officers rose up against him. The fighting went on for quite a while before the US sent help to the FSA.

 

[middleview]

Or if Putin's minions had been handing out cookies here:
View attachment 75063

Or if they were creating thousands of fake social media accounts and hacking US election systems and the DNC email server....?

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Venezuela did have Russian bombers and Russian troops in country. Did we invade?

Did you forget when Iran sent navy ships to visit Venezuela, Brazil and Panama?

Are those missile installations? No. Did they set up the infrastructure to maintain those bombers and ships in Venezuela in perpetuity? No again. Keep trying because so far you are striking out...