Thanks Fareed Zakaria

[middleview]

Are those missile installations? No. Did they set up the infrastructure to maintain those bombers and ships in Venezuela in perpetuity? No again. Keep trying because so far you are striking out...

Then why bring up a visit by a US ship to Odessa?

 

[georgephillip]

Yeltsin hired political advisors who had worked on US campaigns. So what?

America is the world leader in interfering in foreign elections:
Clinton's and the IMF's contribution to Yeltsin's reelection:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/14/yelt-j14.html

"Professor Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University has assembled a database documenting as many as 81 occasions between 1946 and 2000 when Washington interfered in elections in other countries.

"This number does not include military coups or regime-change efforts following the election of candidates the US opposed, as in Iran, Congo, Guatemala, Chile and many other nations..."

"By the time Yeltsin announced in early 1996 that he would be running for a second term in the presidential election scheduled for that summer, he had become one of the most despised figures in Russia, having presided over the catastrophic consequences of the privatization of the Russian economy.

"The impact included a GDP decline of 50 percent, hyperinflation, rampant corruption, skyrocketing violent crime, the collapse of medical services, food and fuel shortages, nonpayment of wages and pensions, and a plunge in life expectancy. Added to this toxic mix was Yeltsin’s highly unpopular war with Chechnya."

 

[georgephillip]

Libya had a civil war because Qaddafi ordered his mercenaries to fire on demonstrators. Can you show US influence in fomenting the demonstrations? Oh, hell no. So the US, France and Britain got involved to avert the slaughter Libyans who were against Qaddafi.

What do you know about Libya that McCain, Graham, and Lieberman didn't know? Khadafy's death and the destruction of Libya had much more to do with his decision to sell oil in a currency other than US dollars.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/destroying-libya-it-seemed-good-idea-time

"The three (Senate) Horsemen of the Apocalypse, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Joe Lieberman, visited Tripoli in 2009, calling Khadafy an ally against terrorism and discussing possibility of US assistance.

"However, he was not fated to live happily ever after. Once his people rose in revolt, his fair‐weather friends joined the mob.

"They excused their volte face with the claim that he was preparing to massacre civilians, which was ostentatiously false.

"He was a garden variety thug, certainly no friend of liberty, but no worse than the other dictators then routinely supported by the West.

"The allies simply preferred a more pliable ruler.

"The Europeans rushed to oust him. The apocalyptic horsemen donned warpaint and made the rounds of TV talk shows calling on Washington to start bombing.

"The Obama administration enthusiastically obliged while 'leading from behind.' Khadafy’s ugly end in Sirte in October 2011 was captured on YouTube."

 

[middleview]

What do you know about Libya that McCain, Graham, and Lieberman didn't know? Khadafy's death and the destruction of Libya had much more to do with his decision to sell oil in a currency other than US dollars.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/destroying-libya-it-seemed-good-idea-time

"The three (Senate) Horsemen of the Apocalypse, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Joe Lieberman, visited Tripoli in 2009, calling Khadafy an ally against terrorism and discussing possibility of US assistance.

"However, he was not fated to live happily ever after. Once his people rose in revolt, his fair‐weather friends joined the mob.

"They excused their volte face with the claim that he was preparing to massacre civilians, which was ostentatiously false.

"He was a garden variety thug, certainly no friend of liberty, but no worse than the other dictators then routinely supported by the West.

"The allies simply preferred a more pliable ruler.

"The Europeans rushed to oust him. The apocalyptic horsemen donned warpaint and made the rounds of TV talk shows calling on Washington to start bombing.

"The Obama administration enthusiastically obliged while 'leading from behind.' Khadafy’s ugly end in Sirte in October 2011 was captured on YouTube."

You ignore that his mercenaries had already started slaughtering the people demonstrating...

 

[middleview]

America is the world leader in interfering in foreign elections:
Clinton's and the IMF's contribution to Yeltsin's reelection:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/14/yelt-j14.html

"Professor Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University has assembled a database documenting as many as 81 occasions between 1946 and 2000 when Washington interfered in elections in other countries.

"This number does not include military coups or regime-change efforts following the election of candidates the US opposed, as in Iran, Congo, Guatemala, Chile and many other nations..."

"By the time Yeltsin announced in early 1996 that he would be running for a second term in the presidential election scheduled for that summer, he had become one of the most despised figures in Russia, having presided over the catastrophic consequences of the privatization of the Russian economy.

"The impact included a GDP decline of 50 percent, hyperinflation, rampant corruption, skyrocketing violent crime, the collapse of medical services, food and fuel shortages, nonpayment of wages and pensions, and a plunge in life expectancy. Added to this toxic mix was Yeltsin’s highly unpopular war with Chechnya."

Again...Yeltsin hired advisors...so what?

Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014...

 

[georgephillip]

Or if they were creating thousands of fake social media accounts and hacking US election systems and the DNC email server....?

How many Americans died from Russian actions in 2016?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/14/yelt-j14.html

"By late 1993, these policies had provoked such massive opposition that Yeltsin, by means of a dictatorial decree, dissolved the parliament.

"In response, opponents in Moscow took over government buildings.

"To put down the rebellion, Yeltsin, using critical intelligence provided by Washington, called out the military, shelled the parliament building and in the ensuing bombing and shooting killed an estimated 2,000 people.

"This was the supposed hero of democracy whom the United States backed in the 1996 election."

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Then why bring up a visit by a US ship to Odessa?

I didn't.

 

[middleview]

I didn't.

I didn't say you did. Your partner here, George did.

 

[middleview]

How many Americans died from Russian actions in 2016?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/14/yelt-j14.html

"By late 1993, these policies had provoked such massive opposition that Yeltsin, by means of a dictatorial decree, dissolved the parliament.

"In response, opponents in Moscow took over government buildings.

"To put down the rebellion, Yeltsin, using critical intelligence provided by Washington, called out the military, shelled the parliament building and in the ensuing bombing and shooting killed an estimated 2,000 people.

"This was the supposed hero of democracy whom the United States backed in the 1996 election."

You think the US was to blame for people killed in Russia? You're a lost cause. You continue to try to justify Putin's invasion by blaming the US for shit going back centuries.

 

[middleview]

How many Americans died from Russian actions in 2016?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/14/yelt-j14.html

"By late 1993, these policies had provoked such massive opposition that Yeltsin, by means of a dictatorial decree, dissolved the parliament.

"In response, opponents in Moscow took over government buildings.

"To put down the rebellion, Yeltsin, using critical intelligence provided by Washington, called out the military, shelled the parliament building and in the ensuing bombing and shooting killed an estimated 2,000 people.

"This was the supposed hero of democracy whom the United States backed in the 1996 election."

Really? Critical US intelligence? Run along, comrade.

 

[middleview]

When the US supplies weapons and intelligence to Saudi fascists, the blame for any civilian deaths is a shared one since our allies would never have possessed the instruments of terror to begin with.

So Russia is responsible for the deaths resulting from the invasion of South Korea?

Russia is certainly solely responsible for the deaths in Ukraine.

 

[middleview]

That isn't what I was suggesting. You said their efforts would prevent all internet crime, and I was simply pointing out how wrong you were.

If the hackers were using a non-filtered public wifi (or hacked encrypted one) it would, of course, do them no good (unless they had had identifying communications).

If a hacker accesses a compromised network and downloads files using a public wifi, all they will get is a mac address. They can certainly track that mac address in an attempt to identify the hacker, but it is unlikely any sophisticated hacker would use that same machine on his home network to check the weather.

Reread the above. The NSA can see their communications coming and going on the target end, and can see where the (other) end node is, but if it is a public wifi, or a hacked one (as in the case of my neighbor) that is where the trail ends. If they are accepting bitcoin as the ransom, that isn't traceable either (as long as they access their wallet the same way they accessed their target).

View attachment 75061

Zooom...off you go. The NSA is not capturing all internet traffic. Your own link states that very clearly. As I offered a scenario where someone could have moved the file to another system within the DNC network and then out of network to a system in the Russian safe house. Unlikely that they'd have moved it to a system in the embassy.

That erases your argument that the NSA would have seen the data being exfiltrated.

Put the data on a thumb drive and deliver it to London.

 

[georgephillip]

You think the US was to blame for people killed in Russia? You're a lost cause. You continue to try to justify Putin's invasion by blaming the US for shit going back centuries.

How many Russians died when US capitalists pillaged the Russian economy in the 1990s?

https://jacobin.com/2018/08/rouble-crash-yeltsin-putin-free-market

"The aftershocks of the Soviet collapse had been amplified in turn by 'shock therapy,' and by the second half of the 1990s poverty and unemployment were widespread, life expectancy had plummeted, and symptoms of social collapse were rife.

"In May 1998, coal miners blocked the Trans-Siberian railway in several places in protest over unpaid wages, raising the prospect of wider unrest."

 

[middleview]

How many Russians died when US capitalists pillaged the Russian economy in the 1990s?

https://jacobin.com/2018/08/rouble-crash-yeltsin-putin-free-market

"The aftershocks of the Soviet collapse had been amplified in turn by 'shock therapy,' and by the second half of the 1990s poverty and unemployment were widespread, life expectancy had plummeted, and symptoms of social collapse were rife.

"In May 1998, coal miners blocked the Trans-Siberian railway in several places in protest over unpaid wages, raising the prospect of wider unrest."

1. The soviet collapse was caused by the enormous costs of the Russian military and the end of Russian control over the East block countries....no longer being looted by the Kremlin.
2. Who was supposed to be paying the railroad workers? Was it some western capitalists?

Somehow you continue to attempt to paint the US as villians who caused the invasion of Ukraine. Good luck.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

So Russia is responsible for the deaths resulting from the invasion of South Korea?

Russia is certainly solely responsible for the deaths in Ukraine.

Yeah, as long as you continue to pretend Mearsheimer & (CIA Director) Burns didn't predict two decades ago that NATO expansion was going to result in Ukraine getting "wrecked."

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Zooom...off you go. The NSA is not capturing all internet traffic. Your own link states that very clearly. As I offered a scenario where someone could have moved the file to another system within the DNC network and then out of network to a system in the Russian safe house. Unlikely that they'd have moved it to a system in the embassy.

That erases your argument that the NSA would have seen the data being exfiltrated.

Put the data on a thumb drive and deliver it to London.

Yeah, "only" 75%. However, even if the NSA didn't catch the "exfiltration" of the email file(s), Crowdstrike, which had full unrestricted access to the DNC servers/network, would have seen that "movement" if it had left the DNC network via their internet connection. Almost certainly, it was downloaded to a thumb drive by someone with internal access to the DNC network.

 

[middleview]

Yeah, "only" 75%. However, even if the NSA didn't catch the "exfiltration" of the email file(s), Crowdstrike, which had full unrestricted access to the DNC servers/network, would have seen that "movement" if it had left the DNC network via their internet connection. Almost certainly, it was downloaded to a thumb drive by someone with internal access to the DNC network.

Wow...75% capacity means what?

 

[middleview]

Yeah, "only" 75%. However, even if the NSA didn't catch the "exfiltration" of the email file(s), Crowdstrike, which had full unrestricted access to the DNC servers/network, would have seen that "movement" if it had left the DNC network via their internet connection. Almost certainly, it was downloaded to a thumb drive by someone with internal access to the DNC network.

Unless the file was moved before crowdstrike was called..

 

[georgephillip]

1. The soviet collapse was caused by the enormous costs of the Russian military and the end of Russian control over the East block countries....no longer being looted by the Kremlin.
2. Who was supposed to be paying the railroad workers? Was it some western capitalists?

Somehow you continue to attempt to paint the US as villians who caused the invasion of Ukraine. Good luck.

Western imperialism ruined the Soviet economy.
Where does Western imperialism come from?
Western capitalism.
What is the purpose of Western imperialism?
To constantly open up (exploit) more and more parts of the world so Western corporations would have access to markets, investment opportunities, and profit from cheap labor and materials.
Russia has always been seen as a big prize for US capitalists.
Ukraine is being destroyed to advance that neoliberal plan.

 

[middleview]

Western imperialism ruined the Soviet economy.
Where does Western imperialism come from?
Western capitalism.
What is the purpose of Western imperialism?
To constantly open up (exploit) more and more parts of the world so Western corporations would have access to markets, investment opportunities, and profit from cheap labor and materials.
Russia has always been seen as a big prize for US capitalists.
Ukraine is being destroyed to advance that neoliberal plan.

Communism ruined the Soviet economy. Tell me why every communist nation had a problem with their citizens escaping to the west.