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Things sure change under Biden Stewardship. Next up: North Korea...

middleview

President
Supporting Member
So you think comparative containment is greater now than during Trump's term? Remember, we have DATA. Right here in this very thread. Kim is demonstrably LESS contained as indicated by data/metrics. Similarly, Putin considers himself freed up to march on his neighbor...unlike before.

Any thoughts on this?
1. Trump did nothing to negotiate a halt to fighting or a withdrawal of Russian troops from Donbas for four years.
2. Trump repeatedly spoke out against Nato and some of his own advisors feared he'd withdraw. Why wouldn't Putin think if Trump were given four more years that his take over of Ukraine would be so much easier?
3. Why is it that Nato responded with such unity against the invasion? Would it have happened if Trump were still president? Hell no.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
There has been no "loss of containment". In fact, Trump's praise of Kim made him stronger and weakened any internal opposition to Kim's regime.

All the same, only two months after the Singapore summit, the IAEA reported developments in North Korea’s nuclear program were “cause for grave concern.” Trump and Kim made little progress on denuclearization in a subsequent meeting in Hanoi in 2019, with the United States maintaining its sanctions and North Korea conducting more rocket and ballistic missile tests. Washington’s newest era of good feelings with Pyongyang began to crack as both sides became increasingly frustrated with one another, with the North Korean foreign minister in June 2020 accusing the Trump administration of pursuing diplomacy only for domestic political gains. Pyongyang continues to stonewall the Biden administration’s efforts to revisit negotiations while dramatically increasing the pace of its missile tests.

Not a peep on the tangible metrics and data points after repeated requests. Just vague references to emotional bolstering and esteem. Nothing on weapons development, proliferation, historic annual high in testing in just the first six months of a year, etc. None of this merits any consideration or discussion. Results. Actual tangible measurable outputs. And no can do.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
Anything on the data points accumulated under Biden's presidency? No? You have nothing to say about the historic INCREASE in Jong-un's measurable aggression here? It is simply not to be counted?
You’re actually desperate enough to equate flailing by firing missiles with “aggression.”

Was NK engaging in “aggression” when it fired missiles during the Trump era?
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Data? Here’s the data….

Trump claimed he would secure elimination of all of NK’s nuclear weapons. The number NK surrended? Zero.

NK also fired missiles throughout Trump’s term despite Trump’s moronic praise of the Fat Boy. They still fire them.

Your sycophantic take? Silence about Trump’s utter failure and pretending that NK only started to act up under Biden.

Your Trump/GOP hackery should embarrass you. But you’re clearly shameless.
Kim was statistically more contained previously than he is now. This fact is demonstrable. Both articles in this thread - one sourced from lefty Slate...and another sourced from lefty CNN. They each quantify profound increase in aggressive behaviors.

Any thoughts?
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Another consequence to the situation in Ukraine seems to be in the offing:

Over the past year, we have seen multiple nations including the United States conducting tests of their nuclear-capable weapons delivery systems. North Korea has been promising to conduct another test detonation of a nuclear bomb for months. Rumors continue to spread that Iran now has enough fissionable material to make a bomb. And, of course, Russia has been reminding everyone of its nuclear arsenal since the invasion of Ukraine began. As the Associated Press reports this week, this has a lot of the other non-nuclear nations looking around and saying, ‘what about us?’ Many of our smaller allies have relied on the United States’ nuclear umbrella to protect them from adversarial nuclear powers, but as they have watched the war in Ukraine unfold, some are having second thoughts. That seems to be particularly true in South Korea, where both citizen activists and government leaders are beginning to talk about developing their own programs. So what would that mean for the world at large?

Complete text: More countries looking at nuclear weapons programs because of Russia – HotAir
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Bunch of crap. Same thing are illustrious foreign policy experts stated when Trump had Soleimani killed. "a huge bump in prestige" as if the worlds largest Ghulag cares......

Canceling one excersize did not compromise anything, signing a bad deal, turning over millions in aid and running around pretending he accomplished something would have compromised everything.

Trump did none of those things, the Fat Kid offered him a deal, it was not good enough, Trump walked... no sanctions lifted.......
It was not one exercise.

Joint military drills were scaled back in recent years to facilitate talks aimed at persuading Pyongyang to dismantle its nuclear and missile programmes in return for U.S. sanctions relief.

The negotiations fell apart in 2019, and the administration of South Korean President Moon Jae-in has been hoping that the reopening of hotlines would help resume the denuclearisation talks. read more


 

Bugsy McGurk

President
Kim was statistically more contained previously than he is now. This fact is demonstrable. Both articles in this thread - one sourced from lefty Slate...and another sourced from lefty CNN. They each quantify profound increase in aggressive behaviors.

Any thoughts?
Again, my thought is that you are a Trump cultist who can’t confront his abysmal failures, which I laid out, choosing instead to pretend that NK’s bad behavior started with Biden.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Kim was statistically more contained previously than he is now. This fact is demonstrable. Both articles in this thread - one sourced from lefty Slate...and another sourced from lefty CNN. They each quantify profound increase in aggressive behaviors.

Any thoughts?
What is the indication that Kim is less contained at the current time?

You argue that missile tests show aggression. His military was conducting those tests for years....Kim is simply being more annoying because he's pissed about the increase in military cooperation between the US and South Korea.
 
This week in wishful thinking:

1. Trump did nothing to negotiate a halt to fighting or a withdrawal of Russian troops from Donbas for four years.
2. Trump repeatedly spoke out against Nato and some of his own advisors feared he'd withdraw. Why wouldn't Putin think if Trump were given four more years that his take over of Ukraine would be so much easier?
3. Why is it that Nato responded with such unity against the invasion? Would it have happened if Trump were still president? Hell no.
NATO is useless, Trump spoke out for two reasons, one they did not nor have they ever paid fairshare for own defense, two why if NATO was supposed to save the world from Russia, were they allowing themselves to be dependent on Russian energy? Which to this day they are still buying....

Russia would not be in the Ukraine if Trump was still POTUS. Putin greenlighted this entire thing when he saw the humiliation of the US in Bidens withdraw from Afghanistan..........
 
It was not one exercise.

Joint military drills were scaled back in recent years to facilitate talks aimed at persuading Pyongyang to dismantle its nuclear and missile programmes in return for U.S. sanctions relief.

The negotiations fell apart in 2019, and the administration of South Korean President Moon Jae-in has been hoping that the reopening of hotlines would help resume the denuclearisation talks. read more


Nobody cares. It harmed nothing, a show of good faith as him and the fat kid sat down and talked....
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
This week in wishful thinking:



NATO is useless, Trump spoke out for two reasons, one they did not nor have they ever paid fairshare for own defense, two why if NATO was supposed to save the world from Russia, were they allowing themselves to be dependent on Russian energy? Which to this day they are still buying....

Russia would not be in the Ukraine if Trump was still POTUS. Putin greenlighted this entire thing when he saw the humiliation of the US in Bidens withdraw from Afghanistan..........
Nato responded to the invasion of Ukraine with such urgency and unity completely destroyed Putin's plan to occupy all of Ukraine. If Trump were still president the facts show that there would have been no united response and Putin's plan would have worked.

As far as the EU dependence on Russian oil, what does that have to do with Trump or Biden? Bad decision? Yes. Was it understandable given that fear of war with Russia had dropped substantially since the days of the Berlin wall? Maybe.

Did you forget that Trump surrendered to the Taliban in January 2020?
 
How is this in any way responsive to the subject of international bad actors ramping up aggression and being vastly, demonstrably emboldened by a Biden presidency? We have actual metrics that conclusively demonstrate such. Any comment on all of these breakaway regimes going on the warpath specifically...markedly on Biden's watch?
Libertarians sure as shit don't have the answers.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Again, my thought is that you are a Trump cultist who can’t confront his abysmal failures, which I laid out, choosing instead to pretend that NK’s bad behavior started with Biden.
This thread is not about Trump. It is about development of increasingly hostile, aggressive behaviors in NK as indicated by weapons systems development, missile launches and testing, etc. These behaviors have increased in both frequency and amplitude. None of you Democrats in this thread are willing to discuss the substantive details of this…instead opting to talk about “Trump” and “sycophancy to GOP”. You guys won’t even acknowledge that Kim’s hostile, rogue behaviors are very much on the increase (again, as shown by the two articles).

This thread - and PJ as a whole - is at an impasse. Contemporary substantive discussion is eschewed and highjacked to Biden’s predecessor in all threads.

I’m not sure what the point of even starting a top posted topic is.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
This thread is not about Trump. It is about development of increasingly hostile, aggressive behaviors in NK as indicated by weapons systems development, missile launches and testing, etc. These behaviors have increased in both frequency and amplitude. None of you Democrats in this thread are willing to discuss the substantive details of this…instead opting to talk about “Trump” and “sycophancy to GOP”. You guys won’t even acknowledge that Kim’s hostile, rogue behaviors are very much on the increase (again, as shown by the two articles).

This thread - and PJ as a whole - is at an impasse. Contemporary substantive discussion is eschewed and highjacked to Biden’s predecessor in all threads.

I’m not sure what the point of even starting a top posted topic is.
Of course it’s not “about Trump.” You would never launch a thread attacking your cult leader. Rather, your point, inane as it is, is that NK misbehavior started, or changed, when Biden took office. The obvious way to refute that is to note that the misbehavior predated Biden, under Trump and others, as much as such reality pains you.
 
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