This perfectly encapsulates the situation in Ukraine...

[Raoul_Luke]

This "counter offensive" has been the most announced military operation in history. It has been "imminent" for months now, and has been taking on all the hallmarks of the classic con - we are any day now ready to launch our flux capacitor and we just need you to send us more money or we will fail and you will lose your entire "investment."

Now there's this:

Ukraine's counter-offensive against Russia has begun, one of President Zelensky's most-senior advisers said this morning.

Mikhail Podolyak, head of the presidential office, said Thursday that operations to push Russia back to its borders 'has already been underway for days.'

Speaking to Italian radio station Rai1, Mr Podolyak said: 'It's an intense war on 1500 kilometers of border, but the actions have already started.'

Ukraine's counter-offensive HAS begun

Mikhail Podolyak, head of the presidential office, said Thursday that operations to push Russia back to its borders 'has already been underway for days.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

But wait, there's more:

Ukraine's military commander-in-chief signaled on Saturday that the long-anticipated counterattack against Russia is approaching.

In a short message posted on Telegram, Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, dubbed Ukraine's 'iron general,' wrote: "It's time to get back what's ours."

The message accompanied a minute-long cinematic video of Ukranian soldiers repeating a chant and handling various weapons.

Ukrainian officials have been boasting about a counterattack against Russia for weeks as the war passes its 15-month mark.

Ukraine's 'Iron General' signals an impending counteroffensive: 'It's time to get back what's ours'

Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, who has been dubbed Ukraine's 'iron general,' posted a Telegram message on Saturday morning.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

So which is it - is it "imminent" or "underway?" Nobody seems to know - wouldn't we know by the news reports of fighting in key contested areas? Maybe, maybe not. The press has been serially reporting Ukrainian "battlefield wins" ever since the war started, but the pictures we see are of Ukrainian cities decimated by relentless Russian missile and drone attacks.

ukraine destroyed - Bing images

If that is winning, I'd hate to see what it looks like if they "start" losing...

 

[BackAlive]

View attachment 75004

This "counter offensive" has been the most announced military operation in history. It has been "imminent" for months now, and has been taking on all the hallmarks of the classic con - we are any day now ready to launch our flux capacitor and we just need you to send us more money or we will fail and you will lose your entire "investment."

Now there's this:

Ukraine's counter-offensive against Russia has begun, one of President Zelensky's most-senior advisers said this morning.

Mikhail Podolyak, head of the presidential office, said Thursday that operations to push Russia back to its borders 'has already been underway for days.'

Speaking to Italian radio station Rai1, Mr Podolyak said: 'It's an intense war on 1500 kilometers of border, but the actions have already started.'

Ukraine's counter-offensive HAS begun

Mikhail Podolyak, head of the presidential office, said Thursday that operations to push Russia back to its borders 'has already been underway for days.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

But wait, there's more:

Ukraine's military commander-in-chief signaled on Saturday that the long-anticipated counterattack against Russia is approaching.

In a short message posted on Telegram, Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, dubbed Ukraine's 'iron general,' wrote: "It's time to get back what's ours."

The message accompanied a minute-long cinematic video of Ukranian soldiers repeating a chant and handling various weapons.

Ukrainian officials have been boasting about a counterattack against Russia for weeks as the war passes its 15-month mark.

Ukraine's 'Iron General' signals an impending counteroffensive: 'It's time to get back what's ours'

Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, who has been dubbed Ukraine's 'iron general,' posted a Telegram message on Saturday morning.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

So which is it - is it "imminent" or "underway?" Nobody seems to know - wouldn't we know by the news reports of fighting in key contested areas? Maybe, maybe not. The press has been serially reporting Ukrainian "battlefield wins" ever since the war started, but the pictures we see are of Ukrainian cities decimated by relentless Russian missile and drone attacks.

ukraine destroyed - Bing images

If that is winning, I'd hate to see what it looks like if they "start" losing...

Losing is 15,000 Russian Dead..100,000 casualties all for basically nothing

 

[middleview]

View attachment 75004

This "counter offensive" has been the most announced military operation in history. It has been "imminent" for months now, and has been taking on all the hallmarks of the classic con - we are any day now ready to launch our flux capacitor and we just need you to send us more money or we will fail and you will lose your entire "investment."

Now there's this:

Ukraine's counter-offensive against Russia has begun, one of President Zelensky's most-senior advisers said this morning.

Mikhail Podolyak, head of the presidential office, said Thursday that operations to push Russia back to its borders 'has already been underway for days.'

Speaking to Italian radio station Rai1, Mr Podolyak said: 'It's an intense war on 1500 kilometers of border, but the actions have already started.'

Ukraine's counter-offensive HAS begun

Mikhail Podolyak, head of the presidential office, said Thursday that operations to push Russia back to its borders 'has already been underway for days.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

But wait, there's more:

Ukraine's military commander-in-chief signaled on Saturday that the long-anticipated counterattack against Russia is approaching.

In a short message posted on Telegram, Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, dubbed Ukraine's 'iron general,' wrote: "It's time to get back what's ours."

The message accompanied a minute-long cinematic video of Ukranian soldiers repeating a chant and handling various weapons.

Ukrainian officials have been boasting about a counterattack against Russia for weeks as the war passes its 15-month mark.

Ukraine's 'Iron General' signals an impending counteroffensive: 'It's time to get back what's ours'

Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, who has been dubbed Ukraine's 'iron general,' posted a Telegram message on Saturday morning.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

So which is it - is it "imminent" or "underway?" Nobody seems to know - wouldn't we know by the news reports of fighting in key contested areas? Maybe, maybe not. The press has been serially reporting Ukrainian "battlefield wins" ever since the war started, but the pictures we see are of Ukrainian cities decimated by relentless Russian missile and drone attacks.

ukraine destroyed - Bing images

If that is winning, I'd hate to see what it looks like if they "start" losing...

You see no value in conducting a misinformation campaign? The Russians are faced with constantly refocusing their troops and reinforcements to be prepared for where along the 1,500 miles they will face the Ukrainians.

In 1944 we constructed a huge fake army to make the Germans think we were going to attack the French coast far from Normandy.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

You see no value in conducting a misinformation campaign? The Russians are faced with constantly refocusing their troops and reinforcements to be prepared for where along the 1,500 miles they will face the Ukrainians.

In 1944 we constructed a huge fake army to make the Germans think we were going to attack the French coast far from Normandy.

Yes, obviously - now that you mention it I think Sun Tzu's primary lesson was to always announce your intentions so as to "confuse" your enemy.

So, if I understand you correctly, the Ukrainians are going to win the war by pretending to "counter attack" the Russians. Good strategy...

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Losing is 15,000 Russian Dead..100,000 casualties all for basically nothing

Reports are that Ukraine lost 50,000...for basically nothing. But hey, I get it - war is your thing and the more dead the better you like it, am I right?

 

[Jack4freedom]

Reports are that Ukraine lost 50,000...for basically nothing. But hey, I get it - war is your thing and the more dead the better you like it, am I right?

“Basically nothing”….Whatever losses Ukraine has sustained are the result of fighting to keep control over their OWN country. I am against war also unless it is in defense of one’s own territory. You don’t see the difference?????

 

[BackAlive]

Reports are that Ukraine lost 50,000...for basically nothing. But hey, I get it - war is your thing and the more dead the better you like it, am I right?

The more Russian Dead the better.Those reports of 50,000 are Bullshiit, Ukraine has lost soldiers but thousands of civilians also.The Russian so much more

 

[Raoul_Luke]

The more Russian Dead the better.Those reports of 50,000 are Bullshiit, Ukraine has lost soldiers but thousands of civilians also.The Russian so much more

Come on, you really don't care who is dying, as long as the war continues. You aren't fooling anyone. All you care about is the MIC profits - the bigger the better, am I right?

 

[Spamature]

Come on, you really don't care who is dying, as long as the war continues. You aren't fooling anyone. All you care about is the MIC profits - the bigger the better, am I right?

How come you never make the case that the Russians should just turn around and go home to their own country ?

If you were really antiwar that is all we should hear from you.
But you are not antiwar.
You are just anti Russia losing this war.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

How come you never make the case that the Russians should just turn around and go home to their own country ?

If you were really antiwar that is all we should hear from you.
But you are not antiwar.
You are just anti Russia losing this war.

They would if the USA admitted their role in the conflict. Being truly antiwar requires an honest assessment of our role in starting and continuing wars.

 

[Spamature]

They would if the USA admitted their role in the conflict. Being truly antiwar requires an honest assessment of our role in starting and continuing wars.

What could the US confess to that would get Putin to recall his troops ?

 

[Raoul_Luke]

What could the US confess to that would get Putin to recall his troops ?

Relentless NATO expansion creating an obvious threat to Russian security..

 

[EatTheRich]

They would if the USA admitted their role in the conflict. Being truly antiwar requires an honest assessment of our role in starting and continuing wars.

Nonsense. The only sorts of concessions the U.S. could give Russia to stop its aggression would be things like giving Alaska to the Russians or expropriating the American oil and coal trusts to turn them over to Russian ownership.

 

[EatTheRich]

Relentless NATO expansion creating an obvious threat to Russian security..

“Relentless” meaning no expansion for many years prior to the Russians’ aggression for which this pretext was only cooked up months into the war when the Russians were losing and wanted to enlist the help of American paleoconservatives to turn things around?

 

[BackAlive]

Come on, you really don't care who is dying, as long as the war continues. You aren't fooling anyone. All you care about is the MIC profits - the bigger the better, am I right?

Hardly..MIC Profits???...Babbling Bullsheet.I support Democracy and the Ukrainian people.Every Dead Russian is great news

 

[Spamature]

Relentless NATO expansion creating an obvious threat to Russian security..

Well how did that work plan out ?
His effort to keep one country from joining NATO ended up causing two of his bordering neighbors to join it.

Seems to me he's the one fueling NATO's expansion, not us.

 

[middleview]

Reports are that Ukraine lost 50,000...for basically nothing. But hey, I get it - war is your thing and the more dead the better you like it, am I right?

So surrender is your thing...got it. All Ukraine has to do is let Putin take what ever part of the country he wants...

 

[middleview]

Relentless NATO expansion creating an obvious threat to Russian security..

There was no threat to Russia. Ukraine was not in the process of joining Nato. The few troops stationed in any of the former Warsaw Pact nations were nowhere near being an invasion force about to enter Russia...they would serve as a trip wire if Russia were to attack.

You see defensive missile systems as a threat? Only because that would limit Russian ability to attack.

Putin lost control of Ukraine when the people of Ukraine kicked his puppet out of office...so he sent troops to Donbas in 2014 and decided a full invasion would allow him to annex the whole country...

 

[Raoul_Luke]

There was no threat to Russia. Ukraine was not in the process of joining Nato. The few troops stationed in any of the former Warsaw Pact nations were nowhere near being an invasion force about to enter Russia...they would serve as a trip wire if Russia were to attack.

You see defensive missile systems as a threat? Only because that would limit Russian ability to attack.

Putin lost control of Ukraine when the people of Ukraine kicked his puppet out of office...so he sent troops to Donbas in 2014 and decided a full invasion would allow him to annex the whole country...

Yes, we know Sun Tzu, you recommend that military leaders ignore the steady encroachment of an enemy until it is too late to respond. Brilliant military strategy!

 

[Raoul_Luke]

So surrender is your thing...got it. All Ukraine has to do is let Putin take what ever part of the country he wants...

Surrender to the truth? Yeah, that's my "thing."