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This perfectly encapsulates the situation in Ukraine...

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Well how did that work plan out ?
His effort to keep one country from joining NATO ended up causing two of his bordering neighbors to join it.

Seems to me he's the one fueling NATO's expansion, not us.
When was the last time the West won a war? Unless the NATO countries all become dictatorships (I'm sure you are salivating at the thought) it will struggle to survive the Ukraine war:

Public opinion on the war in Ukraine (europa.eu)
 

EatTheRich

President
Yes, we know Sun Tzu, you recommend that military leaders ignore the steady encroachment of an enemy until it is too late to respond. Brilliant military strategy!
Hint: Clinton left office in 2001. Obama and Trump spent 12 years all but rolling out the red carpet for Russia. 2 strategically insignificant countries (from the standpoint of “encroachment” on Russia) joined NATO while Obama was president and 2 more while Trump was president. If Biden has taken a more hawkish stance, that has been in response to the decade of Russian bellicosity.
 

EatTheRich

President
When was the last time the West won a war? Unless the NATO countries all become dictatorships (I'm sure you are salivating at the thought) it will struggle to survive the Ukraine war:

Public opinion on the war in Ukraine (europa.eu)
“The West” is hardly the monolith it was in 1955-1962. “The mission defines the coalition” now, as Rumsfeld put it. So for example in the Iraq War, the U.S. won, and Japan benefitted, while other Western powers, particularly France and Italy, lost. In the NATO attack on Libya, the U.S., UK, and France won, again at the particular expense of Italy, while in the 2nd Libyan Civil War Turkey has advanced its interest at the expense of France.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
“Relentless” meaning no expansion for many years prior to the Russians’ aggression for which this pretext was only cooked up months into the war when the Russians were losing and wanted to enlist the help of American paleoconservatives to turn things around?
Perhaps inexorable would have been a better word. Come on, it's not like nobody predicted that NATO expansion would (inevitably) lead to war.

Ukraine Getting Wrecked…As Predicted (John Mearsheimer, Scott Ritter) - YouTube
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Surrender to the truth? Yeah, that's my "thing."
Surrender to the threats from a dictator. Surrender in the face of brutal invasion and occupation....to the outright theft of sovereign land and subjugation of the population.

Good idea, Neville.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
When was the last time the West won a war? Unless the NATO countries all become dictatorships (I'm sure you are salivating at the thought) it will struggle to survive the Ukraine war:

Public opinion on the war in Ukraine (europa.eu)
So your prediction is that NATO will not survive this war? Two new nations are joining...Russia's entire western border is now NATO except for Ukraine. Good job Vlad. I predict that Putin will not survive this war. He'll at least lose his job and maybe his life.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
If this:

ukraine destroyed - Bing images

Is your idea of "winning" there is something wrong with you.
How much of Ukraine did Russian troops occupy in early 2022? They nearly captured Kyiv. They were forced to withdraw. Now they are forced to use mercenary troops and equipment last deployed in the 1960s. They are recruiting soldiers from prisons and buying ammo from North Korea. You call that winning?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Yes, we know Sun Tzu, you recommend that military leaders ignore the steady encroachment of an enemy until it is too late to respond. Brilliant military strategy!
And as Neville Chamberlain (your hero)...said "Peace in our time" was justification for surrender...
So Ukraine ignored the encroachment of Russian troops until it was too late to prevent the invasion.

Your definition of encroachment is what is at question. A nation signing a treaty with other nations for mutual defense is encroachment in your mind.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
And as Neville Chamberlain (your hero)...said "Peace in our time" was justification for surrender...
So Ukraine ignored the encroachment of Russian troops until it was too late to prevent the invasion.

Your definition of encroachment is what is at question. A nation signing a treaty with other nations for mutual defense is encroachment in your mind.
It is when it involves, you know, weapons emplacements.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.

EatTheRich

President
Perhaps inexorable would have been a better word. Come on, it's not like nobody predicted that NATO expansion would (inevitably) lead to war.

Ukraine Getting Wrecked…As Predicted (John Mearsheimer, Scott Ritter) - YouTube
People also “predicted” that declining oil revenues and Russia’s declining standard of living would inevitably lead to war, which it did on multiple occasions in the Caucasus (far from the site of the laconic gestures toward NATO expansion) prior to Russia’s latest military adventure in Ukraine.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
So your prediction is that NATO will not survive this war? Two new nations are joining...Russia's entire western border is now NATO except for Ukraine. Good job Vlad. I predict that Putin will not survive this war. He'll at least lose his job and maybe his life.
People are sick of you war mongers stirring up endless conflicts. Maybe you are seeing different polls than I am seeing but from what I can see the war is becoming steadily less popular. The staggering costs, at a time when western countries are taking on the even more unsustainable costs of unlimited migration, well, I think it's safe to say what cannot continue, won't. But I'm sure you will continue cheering on the inexorable decline all the way down...
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Surrender to the threats from a dictator. Surrender in the face of brutal invasion and occupation....to the outright theft of sovereign land and subjugation of the population.

Good idea, Neville.
Surrender to the moral and fiscal bankruptcy is more like it.
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
People are sick of you war mongers stirring up endless conflicts. Maybe you are seeing different polls than I am seeing but from what I can see the war is becoming steadily less popular. The staggering costs, at a time when western countries are taking on the even more unsustainable costs of unlimited migration, well, I think it's safe to say what cannot continue, won't. But I'm sure you will continue cheering on the inexorable decline all the way down...
Never fear - the precise INSTANT that a non-Democrat is elected POTUS, he (and his fellow lefty automatons) will summarily REJECT and OPPOSE the war. “No blood for borscht!”. All the lisping leftist limpwrists will revert to flaming Code Pink form.

Until that time, however, lots of death, mayhem, destruction, butchery…and death CHEERING (as evidenced above where one of the forum’s many diseased categorized deaths as “good”).
 
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