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Us finalizing plans to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Nothing more? Really? You know that’s demonstrably incorrect, right? The fact that one of PJ’s two serially-dishonest sycophants “liked” that particular assertion should give pause as well.

Oh well. Back to “Yer either ‘fer us or agin’!!”.
hey. you do you. it is demonstrably correct that NATO exists to curb russian hegemony. Whats more convincing....russian hegemony transpiring under our very noses... or pretending a millenia of hatred isnt manifest before us, and instead pretend this is some Sorosian induced endeavor...

please.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Geeze. He’s been here for years. Granted, the apparent fact that he’s a USC Trojan fan is a strike against him… ;-)… but over the years he’s generally proved to be an anti-Bush, anti-Trump, anti-colonialist type of guy who has consistently hammered away at the MIC. People who observe American and/or NATO missteps are not properly relegated to Russia fandom, right? Do you really think he (or Raoul) admire Putin or consider Russia, in its present incarnation, to be a good player on the world stage?
It isn't that the posts offer facts. It is the constant repetition of accusations made by Putin and his propaganda media. Nazis in Ukraine? Really? Genocide against Russian speaking Ukrainians in Donbas? Bullshit. His argument that Ukraine is a threat to Russia, over and over....are destroyed by his estimates that Ukraine would be conquered in days. Then there are the posts arguing that we are encouraging a nuclear confrontation by not forcing Ukraine to surrender.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
It isn't that the posts offer facts. It is the constant repetition of accusations made by Putin and his propaganda media. Nazis in Ukraine? Really? Genocide against Russian speaking Ukrainians in Donbas? Bullshit. His argument that Ukraine is a threat to Russia, over and over....are destroyed by his estimates that Ukraine would be conquered in days. Then there are the posts arguing that we are encouraging a nuclear confrontation by not forcing Ukraine to surrender.
Genocide///?? while Putin concurrently bombs the very people he calls russians...into oblivion.

bullshit is right.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
hey. you do you. it is demonstrably correct that NATO exists to curb russian hegemony. Whats more convincing....russian hegemony transpiring under our very noses... or pretending a millenia of hatred isnt manifest before us, and instead pretend this is some Sorosian induced endeavor...

please.
Yep. Ignore Russian invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Georgia, Chechnya and now Ukraine. They really are nice guys. A Kleptocracy that made Putin one of the wealthiest men on the planet.

Why wouldn't Ukrainians want to surrender to him? Maybe because they remember the brutal occupation and control of their country from 1945 to independence upon the crash of the USSR.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Yep. Ignore Russian invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Georgia, Chechnya and now Ukraine. They really are nice guys. A Kleptocracy that made Putin one of the wealthiest men on the planet.

Why wouldn't Ukrainians want to surrender to him? Maybe because they remember the brutal occupation and control of their country from 1945 to independence upon the crash of the USSR.
this animosity well precedes 1945. and NATO evolved as a counter to USSR trying to gobble up everything in it's sphere.. to the detriment of all and millions of lives lost.

lol. who wouldnt want to return to that....
 

EatTheRich

President
NATO was created to finish the job Hitler started of trying to restore capitalism to the USSR. The USSR responded by creating the buffer regimes in the Warsaw Pact to defend itself. The USSR and Russia have done some unconscionable things, but that is no legitimate reason to whitewash NATO’s record.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
NATO was created to finish the job Hitler started of trying to restore capitalism to the USSR. The USSR responded by creating the buffer regimes in the Warsaw Pact to defend itself. The USSR and Russia have done some unconscionable things, but that is no legitimate reason to whitewash NATO’s record.
As you attempt to whitewash history and the USSR imperial occupation of the East block.

Russia imposed a blockade on Berlin in 1948 and attempted to starve the people of Berlin into allowing them to occupy the entire city. Nato was founded in 1949. Gee, are the two connected? In 1961 the Russians started building the Berlin Wall. That was simply because so many Germans were fleeing from East Germany to the west. From 1949 to 1961 over 2 million Germans had escaped to the west.

When Hungary had the nerve to elect a non-Kremlin leader. Imre Nagy announced Hungary would withdraw from the Wasaw Pact. Moscow said "over my dead body" and invaded. When did Nato send troops into a west block country to overthrow a communist government?
 
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PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
As you attempt to whitewash history and the USSR imperial occupation of the East block.

Russia imposed a blockade on Berlin in 1948 and attempted to starve the people of Berlin into allowing them to occupy the entire city. Nato was founded in 1949. Gee, are the two connected? In 1961 the Russians started building the Berlin Wall. That was simply because so many Germans were fleeing from East Germany to the west. From 1949 to 1961 over 2 million Germans had escaped to the west.

When Hungary had the nerve to elect a non-Kremlin leader. Imre Nagy announced Hungary would withdraw from the Wasaw Pact. Moscow said "over my dead body" and invaded. When did Nato send troops into a west block country to overthrow a communist government?
dont you love the lite weight historians... conveniently omitting polish upon uke atrocity, uke upon pole, aktsia wystla, the nazi collaborators, and anti collaborators, UPA, OUN. banderites, melnykites, Habsbugian violence, AustroHungarian machinations, etc etc.. Yup..pretending it's just mean ole nato... that's when you know the kids have arrived.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
dont you love the lite weight historians... conveniently omitting polish upon uke atrocity, uke upon pole, aktsia wystla, the nazi collaborators, and anti collaborators, UPA, OUN. banderites, melnykites, Habsbugian violence, AustroHungarian machinations, etc etc.. Yup..pretending it's just mean ole nato... that's when you know the kids have arrived.
His never wavering hatred of the US and the west colors every post. North Korea didn't really commit a war crime in invading South Korea and the US had no right to intervene.
Just as the view that it would somehow be better if only Ukraine would surrender.
 

EatTheRich

President
As you attempt to whitewash history and the USSR imperial occupation of the East block.

Russia imposed a blockade on Berlin in 1948 and attempted to starve the people of Berlin into allowing them to occupy the entire city. Nato was founded in 1949. Gee, are the two connected? In 1961 the Russians started building the Berlin Wall. That was simply because so many Germans were fleeing from East Germany to the west. From 1949 to 1961 over 2 million Germans had escaped to the west.

When Hungary had the nerve to elect a non-Kremlin leader. Imre Nagy announced Hungary would withdraw from the Wasaw Pact. Moscow said "over my dead body" and invaded. When did Nato send troops into a west block country to overthrow a communist government?
They didn’t need to, they had the CIA, SEATO, OAS, etc., to do that for them.

The USSR did some politically unforgivable things. Hungary, like every nation of Eastern Europe, had every right to chart its own path to socialism including to form its own foreign policy outside the Warsaw Pact, which served the cause of reaction by invading. The USSR dealt brutally and exploitatively toward the people of Eastern Europe in a shameful reversal of the Leninist policy of self-determination and socialist development led by the most advanced nations (E. Germany, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia as opposed to the USSR). E. Germany like many socialist countries could also be viciously repressive. None of that justifies the formation of an offensive alliance after a deterioration of relations provoked by the U.S. for national and class advantage.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
They didn’t need to, they had the CIA, SEATO, OAS, etc., to do that for them.

The USSR did some politically unforgivable things. Hungary, like every nation of Eastern Europe, had every right to chart its own path to socialism including to form its own foreign policy outside the Warsaw Pact, which served the cause of reaction by invading. The USSR dealt brutally and exploitatively toward the people of Eastern Europe in a shameful reversal of the Leninist policy of self-determination and socialist development led by the most advanced nations (E. Germany, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia as opposed to the USSR). E. Germany like many socialist countries could also be viciously repressive. None of that justifies the formation of an offensive alliance after a deterioration of relations provoked by the U.S. for national and class advantage.
It deteriorated because Stalin had dreams of empire.
 

EatTheRich

President
dont you love the lite weight historians... conveniently omitting polish upon uke atrocity, uke upon pole, aktsia wystla, the nazi collaborators, and anti collaborators, UPA, OUN. banderites, melnykites, Habsbugian violence, AustroHungarian machinations, etc etc.. Yup..pretending it's just mean ole nato... that's when you know the kids have arrived.
NATO … which allied itself with among others Poland’s notorious Home Guard, Nazi Collaborators including Bandera, every other wing of the OAN/UPA, the World Anti-Communist League, pro-Nazi elements from South Africa to Israel (!) to Chile to Argentina to South Vietnam to the Vatican … which included countries led by Nazi collaborators such as Greece, Italy, Spain, and West Germany … is only the most dangerous of the unhinged military hordes that have menaced the Eurasian steppe, whose decades of reckless nuclear brinksmanship, permanent war economy spending at the expense of every person made a pauper to fuel it, and service to the most powerful empire in world history (the mid-20th century American empire) created the situation whereby the USSR could get away with the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia to suppress efforts to build socialist democracy thereby preventing the burgeoning political revolution from restoring socialist democracy to the USSR. The ruling proletariat of Eastern Europe feared that if they didn’t go along with the USSR’s demands to preserve the alliance and protect the Soviet Union, that NATO would come in and restore capitalism. Thereby NATO’s Cold War, as intended, put an end to the process eventually known as de-Stalinization (although it began under Stalin as a consequence of the left gaining political initiative with the defeat of the major fascist regimes), leaving the Stalinist regimes ruling the Warsaw Pact Nations (and Albania, N. Korea, and China) in a position to continue sabotaging the world revolution.
 

EatTheRich

President
It deteriorated because Stalin had dreams of empire.
Which conflicted with American, British, French, Belgian, West German, and Japanese efforts to maintain their empires. And why did Stalin have dreams of empire? National glory and plundered wealth became a consolation for the suppression of world revolution and the war on communist methods and values that Stalin and his heirs were obliged to wage in order to receive critical support from imperialist powers such as the U.S. in his fight to prevent the ouster of the bureaucratic regime he represented and the restoration of proletarian democracy. Stalin played the same part here that the Girondins played during the French Revolution, substituting military adventurism for revolutionary consolidation because their paymasters demanded the fall of the revolutionary regime.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
NATO … which allied itself with among others Poland’s notorious Home Guard, Nazi Collaborators including Bandera, every other wing of the OAN/UPA, the World Anti-Communist League, pro-Nazi elements from South Africa to Israel (!) to Chile to Argentina to South Vietnam to the Vatican … which included countries led by Nazi collaborators such as Greece, Italy, Spain, and West Germany … is only the most dangerous of the unhinged military hordes that have menaced the Eurasian steppe, whose decades of reckless nuclear brinksmanship, permanent war economy spending at the expense of every person made a pauper to fuel it, and service to the most powerful empire in world history (the mid-20th century American empire) created the situation whereby the USSR could get away with the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia to suppress efforts to build socialist democracy thereby preventing the burgeoning political revolution from restoring socialist democracy to the USSR. The ruling proletariat of Eastern Europe feared that if they didn’t go along with the USSR’s demands to preserve the alliance and protect the Soviet Union, that NATO would come in and restore capitalism. Thereby NATO’s Cold War, as intended, put an end to the process eventually known as de-Stalinization (although it began under Stalin as a consequence of the left gaining political initiative with the defeat of the major fascist regimes), leaving the Stalinist regimes ruling the Warsaw Pact Nations (and Albania, N. Korea, and China) in a position to continue sabotaging the world revolution.
Oh dear. Another one ....
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
i dont care how they regard Putin or Russia. I only see theyre constantly favoring the wrong side of the equation. Ukraine has the absolute right to pursue its self determined goals. period. this is not without challenge and hiccups, such as purging itse;f of corruption . (a modality of survival generationally embedded and not fixed in a snap)
further..NATO responds to russian aggressian. nothing more.
Yes, they do. But when it starts to drag us into WWIII, you can put me down as "reluctant." You know where this is headed - Ukraine is going to get nuked. What do we do then?
 
Watch out for the Beavs. That’s a program on the rise, and Smith is a heck of a coach.
Jonathon was also a heck of a college quarterback.
He walked-on at OSU after playing at Glendora High in LA.
He started four years in college and ,best of all, destroyed ND in the 2001 Fiesta Bowl

"A former walk-on, Smith was OSU’s starting quarterback on the 2000 team that finished 11-1, routed Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl, and was No. 4 in the final Associated Press poll. It is regarded as the best team in school history."

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/sports/2017/11/29/oregon-state-jonathan-smith-right-choice-coach-beavers/907077001/
 
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