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Us finalizing plans to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine

I'm sure you nailed it and the rest of the world is wrong. Not to mention the ukrainians who are dying en Masse trying to preserve their freedom
Most of the world knows Ukrainians are suffering today because of a civil war instigated by the US in 2014 that drove a democratically elected president from office, installing a succession of puppet governments in place.

Over the next eight years Ukraine's armed forces were supplied and trained by NATO to provoke a Russia response that happened last February. US sanction were supposed to bring Russia to its knees in a matter of weeks; how's that working...about as well as the civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/26/europe-energy-crisis-natural-gas-economy-winter/
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Most of the world knows Ukrainians are suffering today because of a civil war instigated by the US in 2014 that drove a democratically elected president from office, installing a succession of puppet governments in place.

Over the next eight years Ukraine's armed forces were supplied and trained by NATO to provoke a Russia response that happened last February. US sanction were supposed to bring Russia to its knees in a matter of weeks; how's that working...about as well as the civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/26/europe-energy-crisis-natural-gas-economy-winter/
Nope. A falsehood

Most of the world knows that ukrainians have been struggling to free themselves of Russia's yoke for generations. For years, culminating in 2014 when ukrainians stood up and rejected a Russian puppet, Ukraine has been and does continue to fight subjugation by Russia in all its forms. This includes language suppression, this includes the theft or destruction of Ukrainian culture and artifacts, this includes forced language assimilation and suppression of Ukrainian culture.

Currently this includes Russia's en Masse invasion whose purpose is conquest and the Mass slaughter of the Ukrainian peoples
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Most of the world knows Ukrainians are suffering today because of a civil war instigated by the US in 2014 that drove a democratically elected president from office, installing a succession of puppet governments in place.

Over the next eight years Ukraine's armed forces were supplied and trained by NATO to provoke a Russia response that happened last February. US sanction were supposed to bring Russia to its knees in a matter of weeks; how's that working...about as well as the civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/26/europe-energy-crisis-natural-gas-economy-winter/
If it is a civil war why are Russian troops and mercenaries in the country?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
It's categorically not a civil war. This guy's reading from his stalinist notebook, so speaking to him rationally is a failure
Yeah, I agree. He ignores that the violence that started in 2014 was the outcome of Kremlin interference in Ukraine. Russian troops were in Donbas and were even allowed to vote for the referendum. Of course, that was after they'd driven Ukrainians out and taken over local government buildings. The rebels in Donbas didn't shoot down that airliner on their own.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I agree. He ignores that the violence that started in 2014 was the outcome of Kremlin interference in Ukraine. Russian troops were in Donbas and were even allowed to vote for the referendum. Of course, that was after they'd driven Ukrainians out and taken over local government buildings. The rebels in Donbas didn't shoot down that airliner on their own.
It was a forced referendum as you may recall.
 
If it is a civil war why are Russian troops and mercenaries in the country?
The civil war began in 2014 and ended in 2022.

https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/donbas-conflict-crime/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014–2022)

"The War in Donbas[c] was an armed conflict in the Donbas region of Ukraine, part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War. In March 2014, immediately following the Euromaidan protest movement and subsequent Revolution of Dignity, protests by pro-Russian, anti-government separatist groups arose in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, collectively called the Donbas..."

14,000 Ukrainians died during those eight years while the US rebuilt the Ukrainian armed forces in order to inspire an end to the civil war by provoking Russia to invade. Once that invasion happened, the scourge of nationalism and thousands of casualties on both sides guaranteed the mass hatred required to ensure a profitable return on America'$ inve$tment in Ukraine.$$$
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
The civil war began in 2014 and ended in 2022.

https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/donbas-conflict-crime/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014–2022)

"The War in Donbas[c] was an armed conflict in the Donbas region of Ukraine, part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War. In March 2014, immediately following the Euromaidan protest movement and subsequent Revolution of Dignity, protests by pro-Russian, anti-government separatist groups arose in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, collectively called the Donbas..."

14,000 Ukrainians died during those eight years while the US rebuilt the Ukrainian armed forces in order to inspire an end to the civil war by provoking Russia to invade. Once that invasion happened, the scourge of nationalism and thousands of casualties on both sides guaranteed the mass hatred required to ensure a profitable return on America'$ inve$tment in Ukraine.$$$
Ooops. Nope... ukrainians defending their lands from an invader. There that fixed it
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The civil war began in 2014 and ended in 2022.

https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/donbas-conflict-crime/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014–2022)

"The War in Donbas[c] was an armed conflict in the Donbas region of Ukraine, part of the broader Russo-Ukrainian War. In March 2014, immediately following the Euromaidan protest movement and subsequent Revolution of Dignity, protests by pro-Russian, anti-government separatist groups arose in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, collectively called the Donbas..."

14,000 Ukrainians died during those eight years while the US rebuilt the Ukrainian armed forces in order to inspire an end to the civil war by provoking Russia to invade. Once that invasion happened, the scourge of nationalism and thousands of casualties on both sides guaranteed the mass hatred required to ensure a profitable return on America'$ inve$tment in Ukraine.$$$
Russian troops and equipment were present in Donbas. The anti-aircraft BUK launcher from the Russian 53rd brigade shot down the Malasia flight 17 and then crossed the border back into Russia. That was in July 2014. In August of 2014 there were 10 Russian paratroopers captured about 20km from the Russian border in Donbas. The Russians said their soldiers had inadvertently crossed the border.
 
Russian troops and equipment were present in Donbas. The anti-aircraft BUK launcher from the Russian 53rd brigade shot down the Malasia flight 17 and then crossed the border back into Russia. That was in July 2014. In August of 2014 there were 10 Russian paratroopers captured about 20km from the Russian border in Donbas. The Russians said their soldiers had inadvertently crossed the border.
Russian troops were present in Donbass because for years the US had been turning Ukraine into a base for strikes on Russia. That makes the current conflict existential in nature for Ukraine and Russia while it's a regime change game for the US and NATO. Russia is fighting a hostile military alliance on its western border because the US wants regime change on the opposite side of the planet from DC (again).

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/2171/Legion-of-Merit-awarded-to-the-one-who-killed-290-passengers
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Russian troops were present in Donbass because for years the US had been turning Ukraine into a base for strikes on Russia. That makes the current conflict existential in nature for Ukraine and Russia while it's a regime change game for the US and NATO. Russia is fighting a hostile military alliance on its western border because the US wants regime change on the opposite side of the planet from DC (again).

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/2171/Legion-of-Merit-awarded-to-the-one-who-killed-290-passengers
1. Where is the evidence that the US was turning Ukraine into a base to attack Russia? That is simply bullshit. We had not provided weapons to Ukraine until after 2014 because Russia was arming the rebels and providing troops.
2. Putin invaded because his imperial empire needs to expand. He justified it by calling Ukraine a threat. Only a complete dup believed him.
3. The Iranian airliner was flying from an airport that also hosted F-14s. Iran had attacked the USS Vincennes with gunboats. The pilot of the airliner did not respond to radio contact from the Vincennes.

The US took responsibility and paid about $60 million in compensation. What did Russia do?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Link?

BTW: Only imperial empire expanding is NATO.
Putin has annexed Crimea and Donbas. How is that not an imperial expansion? He attempted to overthrow the Ukrainian government by invading north of Kyiv. He has mourned the loss of military prestige and power.

Nato is an alliance, not a government. Nato does not decide who can run for office or serve as the leader of a nation...Putin does.
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
Putin has annexed Crimea and Donbas. How is that not an imperial expansion? He attempted to overthrow the Ukrainian government by invading north of Kyiv. He has mourned the loss of military prestige and power.

Nato is an alliance, not a government. Nato does not decide who can run for office or serve as the leader of a nation...Putin does.
Only SOROS/NATO are allowed coups in Ukraine?

UKRAINE joining NATO was a red line they willingly took knowing Putin would respond.

NATO/Ukraine best cut their losses so they can live to fight another day. Or be prepared to pick your poison. Humiliating defeat or WW3
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Only SOROS/NATO are allowed coups in Ukraine?

UKRAINE joining NATO was a red line they willingly took knowing Putin would respond.

NATO/Ukraine best cut their losses so they can live to fight another day. Or be prepared to pick your poison. Humiliating defeat or WW3
Russian troops have been forced out of most of the territory they held last year. The only option for humiliating defeat seems to be at the Kremlin. They are buying ammunition and weapons from Iran and North Korea. They are hiring troops from prisoners in Russian prisons. They have been attacking civilian targets in an attempt to demoralize Ukrainian civilians because they aren't doing very well against the Ukrainian army. Putin called for the mobilization of 300,000 draftees....so they left the country.

Putin is jailing people who criticize him. He has no allies to speak of. What countries have recognized Russias annexation of the Donbas? Anybody?
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Only SOROS/NATO are allowed coups in Ukraine?

UKRAINE joining NATO was a red line they willingly took knowing Putin would respond.

NATO/Ukraine best cut their losses so they can live to fight another day. Or be prepared to pick your poison. Humiliating defeat or WW3
complete bullshit.

i'll take humiliating defeat (Russia's) all day.
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
complete bullshit.

i'll take humiliating defeat (Russia's) all day.
I understand. However, you got to be realistic.

1: Russia will never allow a military defeat in Ukraine without using nukes.
2. Russia will never give up Ukraine without using nukes
3.a Ukraine will not defeat Russian troops on their soil without a full NATO intervention.
3.b Full Nato intervention = Nukes

All Russia has to do is detonate one NUKE and the entire economic house of cards in the West collapses.

And if Putin detonates 1 nuke, what's NATO going to do? Retaliate with a full Nuke response and guarantee WW3?

Best bet is declaring victory, sign an armistice and deploy NATO and Soros to stir-up a coup in Russia.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
I understand. However, you got to be realistic.

1: Russia will never allow a military defeat in Ukraine without using nukes.
2. Russia will never give up Ukraine without using nukes
3.a Ukraine will not defeat Russian troops on their soil without a full NATO intervention.
3.b Full Nato intervention = Nukes

All Russia has to do is detonate one NUKE and the entire economic house of cards in the West collapses.

And if Putin detonates 1 nuke, what's NATO going to do? Retaliate with a full Nuke response and guarantee WW3?

Best bet is declaring victory, sign an armistice and deploy NATO and Soros to stir-up a coup in Russia.
1. sure it will. nukes end the world. Russia occupies this world too.
2. sure it will. wait and learn.
3. false. Ukraine is presently killing everything sent it's way. tedious and costly. but by every measure Russia is getting its ass kicked. it literally sends prisoners as fodder/to slaughter.
4. false. see #1

let russia detonate one and affect the west and it will find out.
 
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