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Were the Founding Fathers actually Christians?

Constitutional Sheepdog

][][][%er!!!!!!!
You made a pretty good case that the other Lazarus was rich. Of course he appears in the Gospel of John, alongside Jesus the Platonic logos. Jesus the prophetic scourge of the wealthy appears mostly in Luke and to a lesser extent Matthew and Mark.
Which goes back to my original point having wealth is not evil, it's the love of that wealth which makes it evil.
 

EatTheRich

President
What? what relevance does "tell it to the black Panthers"
Have to do with "The poor cannot feed the poor"
The Black Panthers were an organization of poor people. They started a free community breakfast program that significantly cut child malnutrition in many major cities. That program went on to be the model for and in some cities the organizational nucleus of the modern public-school breakfast program.
 

Constitutional Sheepdog

][][][%er!!!!!!!
The Black Panthers were an organization of poor people. They started a free community breakfast program that significantly cut child malnutrition in many major cities. That program went on to be the model for and in some cities the organizational nucleus of the modern public-school breakfast program.
No the balck panthers were not an oragnization for poor people. It was founded on Blacks protesting the Vietnam War. So with that said Are you saying Blacks are the only race that have poor people?
 

Constitutional Sheepdog

][][][%er!!!!!!!
But to get back to the top post question
Were the founding Fathers Christians?
All you have to do is look at the historical Congressional Chaplain.
Not one Chaplain appointed by Congress was anything but from a Christian faith. Up until the late 20th century at least.
 

EatTheRich

President
No the balck panthers were not an oragnization for poor people. It was founded on Blacks protesting the Vietnam War. So with that said Are you saying Blacks are the only race that have poor people?
They certainly protested the war, but they also protested the poverty of the urban areas. And they were actually founded, mostly, to address police brutality. And they helped the urban poor of all races, and were in fact a multiracial organization themselves.
 

EatTheRich

President
But to get back to the top post question
Were the founding Fathers Christians?
All you have to do is look at the historical Congressional Chaplain.
Not one Chaplain appointed by Congress was anything but from a Christian faith. Up until the late 20th century at least.
The first chaplain was an Episcopalian. By your logic, this means all the Founders were Episcopalians.
 

Constitutional Sheepdog

][][][%er!!!!!!!
They certainly protested the war, but they also protested the poverty of the urban areas. And they were actually founded, mostly, to address police brutality. And they helped the urban poor of all races, and were in fact a multiracial organization themselves.
Go protest in Cuba they have a lot of poverty.
 

Sunset Rose

Mayor
Supporting Member
No the balck panthers were not an oragnization for poor people. It was founded on Blacks protesting the Vietnam War. So with that said Are you saying Blacks are the only race that have poor people?
I'm sure the Black Panthers didn't agree with the war in VietNam, but that isn't why they organized their group. EatTheRich is correct. They wanted to help feed poor children in their neighborhoods. They also wanted to help protect their community from police brutality. That is why they armed themselves and patrolled their neighborhoods.
 
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Sunset Rose

Mayor
Supporting Member
Well, most of them were. But what, specifically, did they believe, and where did they stand on separation of Church and State? The question is obscured by the lazy belief that all the "Founding Fathers" formed a monolithic bloc committed to exactly the same policies. Where did they really stand?

George Washington: an Episcopalian, that is, a member of the dominant Christian sect in the American South in his time. Frequently made references to "God" or "Providence," proclaimed National Days of Thanksgiving and National Days of Prayer, and made efforts to convert the Delaware and other Indian nations to Christianity. On the other hand, strongly supported equal political rights regardless of religion, including specifically Jews as well as Christians of all sects, opposed Episcopal Establishmentarianism, and--when hiring laborers for Mt. Vernon--left instructions to hire solely with respect to merit without reference to religion, saying, "If they be good workmen ... they may be Mohammedans, Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be atheists." He often attended services of Christian denominations other than his own, and encouraged other Christians to be equally ecumenical.

John Adams: Raised Congregationalist; later became a Unitarian, that is, someone coming from the Christian tradition who denied the Trinity. He believed in miracles, criticized atheism, and proclaimed National Days of Prayer, but was a strong supporter of religious toleration and nondiscrimination. He criticized the tenets of the Calvinist tradition out of which his childhood and adult religion grew.

Thomas Jefferson: Raised Episcopalian; later became a Deist, that is, someone who believed in a creator as an explanation for the origins of the universe, but did not believe that the creator took an active role in human affairs. A self-described materialist who opposed the belief in miracles and was highly critical of "priest-craft" and particularly of the Catholic Church. He also criticized the tenets of Calvinism. Originator of the phrase "wall of separation between Church and State," he was the author of Virginia's toleration law and a firm opponent of religion in government, to the point that he refused to continue the tradition of calling National Days of Prayer.

James Madison: an Episcopalian with liberal/rationalist views. Helped co-author Virginia's statute on toleration and the 1st Amendment prohibiting Establishment of religion and protecting Free Exercise. With Jefferson, helped convert the College of William and Mary from a religious (Episcopalian) institution into a secular one.

Alexander Hamilton: Raised Presbyterian, and discriminated against as a child as a result. Denied access to the public Episcopal school, he was educated at a private Jewish school where he learned Hebrew, and he became a lifelong supporter of Jewish rights. As an adult, converted to Episcopalianism and, although not particularly observant, made religious appeals to Christian voters to undermine his rival Jefferson.

Aaron Burr: Raised the son of a Presbyterian minister. Rarely attended church or spoke on religious matters. Conspired with Catholic leaders for his conspiracy to invade Mexico and overthrow the U.S. government.

John Jay: An Episcopalian. Argued for prohibiting Catholics from holding public office, and argued that Christianity was at the foundation of proper government.

Oliver Wolcott: A Congregationalist, that is, an heir to the Calvinist-influenced Puritan tradition. Believed that Congregationalism should be the official religion of the United States.

Gouverneur Morris: An Episcopalian who strongly supported separation of church and state.

Robert Morris: An Episcopalian was strongly supported separation of church and state.

John Hancock: A Congregationalist who seldom attended church; supported separation of church and state.

James Otis: A Congregationalist who argued that government derived its just powers from God; supported the continued connection with Britain on the ground of the divine right of kings. Opposed separation of church and state.

Sam Adams: A Congregationalist deacon who typically justified his political positions on religious grounds; supported the power of states to establish their own churches, but opposed a national church.

Paul Revere: The son of Puritans; converted to Episcopalianism as a boy. Supported separation of church and state, but encouraged the founding of Christian churches of all denominations.

Abigail Adams: A Unitarian (raised Congregationalist); believed that religion should be a private matter.

Ethan Allen: Raised a Puritan; as an adult, became an atheist and a militant critic of Christianity.

Thomas Paine: A firm Deist (raised a Quaker), and a sharp critic of both Christianity and Judaism. Advocated discrimination against Jews and Catholics based on conspiracy theories. Also criticized atheism on moral grounds, although he was often called an atheist by his enemies, and even by other Deists such as Jefferson. His hostility toward Christianity did not stop him from allying with Evangelical Christians against the anti-revolutionary Quaker and Presbyterian parties in Pennsylvania.

Benjamin Franklin: Raised a Puritan. Although he became a Deist as a young man, remained a lifelong supporter of Christianity in general because he admired its moral influence, and was especially supportive of the burgeoning Evangelical movement. Converted to Evangelical Christianity himself as an old man, without joining any particular church, and made unsuccessful efforts to open sessions of the Continental Congress with daily prayers.

Benedict Arnold: Raised a Baptist. Like other Baptists of his time, was a strong supporter of separation of church and state. After going over to the British, converted to Anglicanism and became a supporter of the Anglican Ascendancy in Britain.

Patrick Henry: An Episcopalian. An early opponent of clerical power, and one of the most influential supporters of the Bill of Rights, in his later life he became an aggressive critic of the separation of church and state, argued for the power of states to establish churches, and attempted to restore the Episcopal establishment in Virginia.
Being a Christian must have meant something different back in those days. Did these men ever read that part of the Bible that says, "Love thy neighbor?" How could you hold your fellow man in chains of cruel slavery and consider yourself a Christian?
 

Constitutional Sheepdog

][][][%er!!!!!!!
I'm sure the Black Panthers didn't agree with the war in VietNam, but that isn't why they organized their group. EatTheRich is correct. They wanted to help feed poor children in their neighborhoods. They also wanted to help protect their community from police brutality. That is why they armed themselves and patrolled their neighborhoods.
no eat the rich isn't correct
 

EatTheRich

President
Being a Christian must have meant something different back in those days. Did these men ever read that part of the Bible that says, "Love thy neighbor?" How could you hold your fellow man in chains of cruel slavery and consider yourself a Christian?
That was OK by the lights of mainstream Christianity going all the way back to the time of Paul. But at least one of the Founders, Benjamin Franklin, served a subversive role as president of the Society for the Relief of Free Negroes Unlawfully Held in Bondage. In the final years under the Articles of Confederation, and just as Franklin's own personal relationship with Jesus was deepening, this then all-white society fought in court to prevent free Blacks from being enslaved under false pretenses, and raised funds to purchase slaves from their owners and free and educate them. Franklin also freed his own two house slaves at the time. Heading into the Constitutional Convention, Franklin wrote an open letter to the public denouncing slavery and calling for full abolition and the resettlement of Blacks in Central America.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Well, most of them were. But what, specifically, did they believe, and where did they stand on separation of Church and State? The question is obscured by the lazy belief that all the "Founding Fathers" formed a monolithic bloc committed to exactly the same policies. Where did they really stand?

George Washington: an Episcopalian, that is, a member of the dominant Christian sect in the American South in his time. Frequently made references to "God" or "Providence," proclaimed National Days of Thanksgiving and National Days of Prayer, and made efforts to convert the Delaware and other Indian nations to Christianity. On the other hand, strongly supported equal political rights regardless of religion, including specifically Jews as well as Christians of all sects, opposed Episcopal Establishmentarianism, and--when hiring laborers for Mt. Vernon--left instructions to hire solely with respect to merit without reference to religion, saying, "If they be good workmen ... they may be Mohammedans, Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be atheists." He often attended services of Christian denominations other than his own, and encouraged other Christians to be equally ecumenical.

John Adams: Raised Congregationalist; later became a Unitarian, that is, someone coming from the Christian tradition who denied the Trinity. He believed in miracles, criticized atheism, and proclaimed National Days of Prayer, but was a strong supporter of religious toleration and nondiscrimination. He criticized the tenets of the Calvinist tradition out of which his childhood and adult religion grew.

Thomas Jefferson: Raised Episcopalian; later became a Deist, that is, someone who believed in a creator as an explanation for the origins of the universe, but did not believe that the creator took an active role in human affairs. A self-described materialist who opposed the belief in miracles and was highly critical of "priest-craft" and particularly of the Catholic Church. He also criticized the tenets of Calvinism. Originator of the phrase "wall of separation between Church and State," he was the author of Virginia's toleration law and a firm opponent of religion in government, to the point that he refused to continue the tradition of calling National Days of Prayer.

James Madison: an Episcopalian with liberal/rationalist views. Helped co-author Virginia's statute on toleration and the 1st Amendment prohibiting Establishment of religion and protecting Free Exercise. With Jefferson, helped convert the College of William and Mary from a religious (Episcopalian) institution into a secular one.

Alexander Hamilton: Raised Presbyterian, and discriminated against as a child as a result. Denied access to the public Episcopal school, he was educated at a private Jewish school where he learned Hebrew, and he became a lifelong supporter of Jewish rights. As an adult, converted to Episcopalianism and, although not particularly observant, made religious appeals to Christian voters to undermine his rival Jefferson.

Aaron Burr: Raised the son of a Presbyterian minister. Rarely attended church or spoke on religious matters. Conspired with Catholic leaders for his conspiracy to invade Mexico and overthrow the U.S. government.

John Jay: An Episcopalian. Argued for prohibiting Catholics from holding public office, and argued that Christianity was at the foundation of proper government.

Oliver Wolcott: A Congregationalist, that is, an heir to the Calvinist-influenced Puritan tradition. Believed that Congregationalism should be the official religion of the United States.

Gouverneur Morris: An Episcopalian who strongly supported separation of church and state.

Robert Morris: An Episcopalian was strongly supported separation of church and state.

John Hancock: A Congregationalist who seldom attended church; supported separation of church and state.

James Otis: A Congregationalist who argued that government derived its just powers from God; supported the continued connection with Britain on the ground of the divine right of kings. Opposed separation of church and state.

Sam Adams: A Congregationalist deacon who typically justified his political positions on religious grounds; supported the power of states to establish their own churches, but opposed a national church.

Paul Revere: The son of Puritans; converted to Episcopalianism as a boy. Supported separation of church and state, but encouraged the founding of Christian churches of all denominations.

Abigail Adams: A Unitarian (raised Congregationalist); believed that religion should be a private matter.

Ethan Allen: Raised a Puritan; as an adult, became an atheist and a militant critic of Christianity.

Thomas Paine: A firm Deist (raised a Quaker), and a sharp critic of both Christianity and Judaism. Advocated discrimination against Jews and Catholics based on conspiracy theories. Also criticized atheism on moral grounds, although he was often called an atheist by his enemies, and even by other Deists such as Jefferson. His hostility toward Christianity did not stop him from allying with Evangelical Christians against the anti-revolutionary Quaker and Presbyterian parties in Pennsylvania.

Benjamin Franklin: Raised a Puritan. Although he became a Deist as a young man, remained a lifelong supporter of Christianity in general because he admired its moral influence, and was especially supportive of the burgeoning Evangelical movement. Converted to Evangelical Christianity himself as an old man, without joining any particular church, and made unsuccessful efforts to open sessions of the Continental Congress with daily prayers.

Benedict Arnold: Raised a Baptist. Like other Baptists of his time, was a strong supporter of separation of church and state. After going over to the British, converted to Anglicanism and became a supporter of the Anglican Ascendancy in Britain.

Patrick Henry: An Episcopalian. An early opponent of clerical power, and one of the most influential supporters of the Bill of Rights, in his later life he became an aggressive critic of the separation of church and state, argued for the power of states to establish churches, and attempted to restore the Episcopal establishment in Virginia.

It appears some were, perhaps even most.

All? Probably not.

Hardly surprising...In fact, it would be a bigger surprise if they all were.

So...what, exactly, is the point you're going for here?
 
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