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Why as a rule do we oppose immigration?

Jen

Trump 2020
I am absolutely serious at my question. I'm really curious those who's opposed to immigration.. Why? I may somehow understand why Europeans would be opposed to immigration but if you are an American, I don't understand it. You know, since America is " a melting pot" being cooked in immigration sauce. Explain me your position.
Really?
This is a serious question?
AMERICANS DO NOT OPPOSE IMMIGRATION.

That you even think that Americans oppose immigration shows you are either very young, very ignorant, and you have bought into some crazy propaganda..... or perhaps all three.


Yes. This country is a wonderful melting pot. My own family includes Europeans, Mexicans, Black people, Native Americans, and Asians. All immigrated from the world as a whole to the USA.

What is opposed is ILLEGAL immigration. When I lived in Italy, I had to get documents that said I was legally able to live there. Most nations expect those immigrating into them to live will get legal documents.

What is opposed is for people to come here and live with no legal documents. It is a disservice to those people in that they are forced to live a very meager life on the periphery of our culture because they can't take part of some things unless they have legal documents.

That you are not aware of this..............shows you to be extremely ignorant.

Do you think you know enough to even come to this board?

I question that.
 

Jen

Trump 2020
I dint know of anyone opposed to immigration. Some are opposed to illegal immigration.
It would be almost impossible to find an American who opposes immigration.
There are some very young and ignorant people who have apparently listened to or read propaganda that makes that statement. Kinda funny that there is still someone who actually buys into that propaganda and asks "innocent" questions like this one.
 

Acurite

Council Member
Really?
This is a serious question?
AMERICANS DO NOT OPPOSE IMMIGRATION.

That you even think that Americans oppose immigration shows you are either very young, very ignorant, and you have bought into some crazy propaganda..... or perhaps all three.


Yes. This country is a wonderful melting pot. My own family includes Europeans, Mexicans, Black people, Native Americans, and Asians. All immigrated from the world as a whole to the USA.

What is opposed is ILLEGAL immigration. When I lived in Italy, I had to get documents that said I was legally able to live there. Most nations expect those immigrating into them to live will get legal documents.

What is opposed is for people to come here and live with no legal documents. It is a disservice to those people in that they are forced to live a very meager life on the periphery of our culture because they can't take part of some things unless they have legal documents.

That you are not aware of this..............shows you to be extremely ignorant.

Do you think you know enough to even come to this board?

I question that.
I agree......that most do not oppose immigration and far too many do not even oppose illegal immigration.
 

Acurite

Council Member
It would be almost impossible to find an American who opposes immigration.
There are some very young and ignorant people who have apparently listened to or read propaganda that makes that statement. Kinda funny that there is still someone who actually buys into that propaganda and asks "innocent" questions like this one.
True...I think those who believe we oppose immigration get that from the fake news.
 

Acurite

Council Member
First of all the Declaration of Independence was written by Thomas Jefferson who owned 200 slaves and never gave any of them their freedom.

Most do not even understand what the doctrine of 'all men are created equal' really meant--- Simply that we should all be equal before the law.

Many have been brainwashed into believing that all people are actually equal in every respect...just common sense rules that out.....obviously common sense is not possessed by everyone....or if they ever had any...it was squashed by indoctrination into political correctness.

One other factoid.....our founding fathers did not even take into consideration the Negroes when they wrote the Constitution...Negroes were considered property...and thought not to be fully human.

Now regarding the principle of unalienable rights....I agree that in theory and in a spiritual sense that we all should have freedom and liberty based on the fact we were created after the likeness of our Lord and that is the source of our rights as human beings. Unfortunately though I would not deny that all humans have those rights....they have not been actualized or secured by the majority of the world's people due to despotic governments...and that we as Americans are rapidly losing our basic rights....which began when the doctrine of political correctness spread across the land.

Trump is not requesting a trillion dollars for a wall...merely 5 billion. Now I do not think a wall is the whole answer...it will take more than just a wall...but a wall will help.

Those who hire illegal aliens should be stopped from doing that. We also should have a program and Trump has suggested this of allowing in guest workers to harvest our crops.
 

Acurite

Council Member
Does that mean migration barriers diminish the productivity of human labor?

"To illustrate this point, consider the differences in productivity between the United States and Mexico.

"The United States is much more productive than Mexico and, consequently, has five times more income per person.

"It's not just that the United States has better educated or more skilled workers, although it does. Rather, the capital, institutions, and infrastructure makes the same workers much more productive simply by being in a different place.

"Identical workers will earn more than 3.8 times as much in the US as in Mexico. Yemenese and Nigerian workers would earn about 14 times as much as in the US. Haitians would earn more than 23 times as much."

https://fee.org/articles/how-free-migration-could-double-the-economy/
hehheh.....Well the real key is not some fact of geography....the key as you mention is the infrastructure and our economic system but also due to the nature of those who founded and built this nation....White Evangelicals for the most part...but you seem to place the emphasis on a geographic location...which is true of course but again the key being what made the geographic location of America to be the most productive...I hope I am being clear on this
 

Acurite

Council Member
The Melting Pot Has Boiled Over

Immigration was beneficial only earlier in our history, when the country needed more workers to develop it. In our time, immigrants mostly take jobs away from Americans, which makes them a threat to the nation rather than needed help. Those who fill up shortages are not needed either; the shortages are caused by not offering paid education and other paid job-training. The parasites who push this insult to America must be overthrown by patriots. Terminal-stage Capitalism has committed capital treason.
You are on the right track....our situation today is far different that it was in the days of colonialism.

Of paramount issue now is our national security and immigration is a key component of national security.

Another huge, huge factor which many are confused about is that not all immigrants are equal.

We need to go back to our immigration policy that existed before 1965...a merit based system of immigration. Favor those who actually have something to contribute to the Nation. Also we need to recognize that the myth of diversity has done us much harm already and will do a lot more...as in it leads to more division as in a house divided against itself cannot stand. We had too much division from the git go...even from people who were basically pretty similar but with very different culture...aka the yankees vs. the southerners which led to our greatest mistake of our history...The War Between The States.

This idea of America being here as a beacon for all the suffering masses of the world...is not only wrong but a prescription for the weakening of America....though we got on that fallacious track in 1965...the result ---we have such diversity now--- that what we have always called democracy is rapidly becoming un-workable...we have let in too many people of the wrong kind...aka people with alien religious beliefs, people who cannot or will not assimilate into our culture.

Again....our immigration needs to be geared to protecting America and making it stronger. We cannot even if we wanted to become the refuge for all the world's suffering people....we would be overwhelmed and yet that is the track we are on...people best wake ulp.
 

Acurite

Council Member
Early in America's history people came from every corner of the world. And today, you still don't understand. While everyone had unalienable Rights, only whites were citizens. Those of you adamant about the issue wear blinders and cannot see - AND you're a hypocrite about it. Allow me a moment to prove it:

According to the Declaration of Independence, all men have unalienable Rights. As such, those Rights are above the law. Let's take a look at how the early courts viewed unalienable Rights:

"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself, or the state is absolute. He does not derive it from the state government... It is one of the "high powers" ... and is excepted out of the general powers of government. ...A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the law making power." Cockrum v. State 24 texas 394, 402 (1859.)

The Right to keep and bear Arms is predicated upon the unalienable Right to Life; therefore, most gun laws have no legal standing IF we assert that they are unalienable Rights. Equally true then, that Liberty is above the law. so, NO SIR, I'm nobody's liberal. I'm simply guided by a simple principle:

The government did not create me and, as a result, has no jurisdiction over unalienable Rights. That is a world away from the benefits of citizenship - which are privileges. Now, the thinking of the anti - immigrant lobby is that every statute Congress passes is enforceable IF the anti-immigrant agrees with it. And if you don't agree, you are a liberal. What a freaking joke!

The downside to their argument is that unalienable Rights either come from a Creator (as per the Declaration of Independence) OR they are granted by government. The problem is, if the foreigner has no unalienable Rights, then
neither does the individual gun owner. Well, I suppose you could argue that some God came down and said that only legal Americans are entitled to their Life, Liberty and the right to pursue Happiness.

My critics have never shot one of these so - called "illegal aliens" because they realize that those people have a Right to Life. Well, they also have a Right to Liberty and a Right to the pursuit of Happiness. When Constitutional Sheepdog can tell you about all the so-called "illegal aliens" he's shot down, he can come here, crow and tell you how wrong I am. It's illegal to shoot those people because the same laws that protect YOUR Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness are the same ones protecting them. If not, Constitutional Sheepdog will be happy to describe in detail his exploits on the border and his kill count.

Does that make me a "liberal?" Well, I've spent a few decades trying to drum up support for passing laws that make welfare, Socialist Security, etc. benefits of citizenship instead of a right (as the current courts claim.) Where was Constitutional Sheepdog on that issue? While the anti-immigrant lobby has tried to force people into becoming citizens, I've fought it tooth and nail, not willing to add millions more to our welfare dole - and they call me the liberal!!!

While I've fought the illegal income tax and exposed the illegally ratified 14th Amendment, the anti -immigrant lobby has lobbied for an absolute POLICE STATE... and they call me a liberal. The anti-immigrant lobby backed warrantless searches, National ID, the so - called "Patriot Act" and Constitution Free Zones - ALL of which I have fought (including in the courts) and these mis-educated sheeple can only invoke an emotion laden term that does not fit me in any way, shape, fashion or form. Liberal? Aren't you the guys arguing against unalienable Rights both in words AND actions?

First of all the majority...the great majority of our early immigrants were Europeans.

Slaves were brought over from Africa and there were some Chinese immigrants who encoutered much opposition. There were some spainards mainly in Calif. and the SouthWest...but the huge majority were Europeans and that remained so until 1965 when we got off on a wrong track...now we are headed towards people of European descent becoming a minority in a few short years....already one of our two major political parties the democrats have a majority of minorities...as in the the democratic party once the stalwart of the white working class...is now a party of by and for minorities.

I think you are letting your idealism confuse you. Say for instance that you are right ...we have an unalienable right to own firearms....yet the various states decided what is legal and what is illegal in regards to firearms...some states allow one to carry a concealed weapon....but if you cross over into another state it may be illegal there. Not that I agree with that ...I think there should be uniform law on weapons as in all the states should be governed by the same law on weapons.

There is reality and there is idealism and rarely do the two meet. I do not disagree with the religious belief that all our 'rights' come from the creator in whose likeness we were created....yet how many people in the world actually have freedom? Very few...and even we here in America are becoming increasingly restricted by our Federal Government especially. I am fine with believing in unalienable rights...I do believe in the concept of unalienable rights....yet it should be obvious those rights have to be fought for if you are to secure them. That is what sparked the Revolultionary War...our early patriots recognized the tyranny of The English King and decided to put a stop to it.

Yet tyranny still exists and has existed since the dawn of history....we are more fortunte than most due to the fact that our forefathers fought and died for a government that has allowed us to have more freedom than any other people in history....yet the government we have had since the sixties has been on the wrong track....and the tyranny that once existed only outside America is developing here at an ever increasing pace....but you seem to be saying...forgive me if I am wrong...we need not worry we have unalienable rights...am I misconstruing what you are saying?

BTW I am not saying we should ignore the suffering masses of the world....we should strive to help them secure their unalienable rights in their own countries. It is extremely foolish for us to believe we can become a refuge for all the suffering masses of the world.
 

Jen

Trump 2020
I agree......that most do not oppose immigration and far too many do not even oppose illegal immigration.
Do you mean people like Nancy Pelosi who had to hide from Angel Moms today ........mothers who lost children to illegal immigrants? Pelosi supports the illegal immigrants and probably blames the children of those Angel Moms for getting killed by an illegal.
 

Acurite

Council Member
Do you mean people like Nancy Pelosi who had to hide from Angel Moms today ........mothers who lost children to illegal immigrants? Pelosi supports the illegal immigrants and probably blames the children of those Angel Moms for getting killed by an illegal.
Yes, Nancy Pelosi the poster child of all that is wrong with the democratic party.
 

Jen

Trump 2020
Jen,

I spent six years working in immigration law. Prior to that I was actually a guy that went to patrol the border and worked on the anti-immigrant side for many years. Having been on all sides of the issues, it seems that it might be the subject yours truly understands - and I can't say that about other subjects people have attacked me over.

Here is the REAL issue:

The Declaration of Independence states:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."

When the Declaration of Independence was penned, there were no American citizens. Yet the Founding Fathers proclaimed that all men have unalienable Rights. An unalienable Right is not given by government; it is above the law; no mortal man can give you an unalienable Right; mortal man cannot take the Right.

The usual plan of attack by the anti-immigrant forces is to try and convince you that the Declaration of Independence is not law; however it is at the head of the United States Code Annotated... which happens to be the official laws of the United States. While it may not be a "law" like a court case, statute, or regulation, it is law. The United States Supreme Court ruled:

"The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "While such declaration of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government."
Cotting v. Godard, 183 U.S. 79 (1901)

Are you with me so far?

We discuss "illegal immigration" as if to imply people are criminals. In American jurisprudence, they are not. Improper Entry is a civil violation of federal law, but it is not a crime. Furthermore, the candidates on both sides of the political spectrum now accept that as legal fact, so it is NOT my personal opinion.

Yet, the anti-immigrant lobby is willing to spend upward of a TRILLION DOLLARS to build a gigantic wall around the U.S. when ALL of the politicians (especially Donald Trump) have no intention of prohibiting people from being in the United States. All we hear is the constant crowing about "illegal immigration." At best, the people are complaining because some people do not have human registration papers.

And so, it's not about immigrants being here, it's all about creating the ultimate POLICE STATE wherein people are put under surveillance, monitored (24 / 7 / 365), scrutinized, and their every movement evaluated and regulated by tyrants. People are in love with a POLICE STATE.

In case you're wondering about my personal agenda, it goes back to the 1980s when patriots were handing the feds one defeat after another. You see, the income tax could not be enforced as it was voluntary and the way you "volunteered," was to get a Socialist Surveillance Number... oooops. "Social(ist) Security Number." Then all the hoopla was created over so - called "illegal immigration" and Preamble Citizens were FORCED to get an SSN and National ID Card which gave the illegally adopted 16th Amendment new teeth.

We're urinating away our unalienable Rights and those pushing the nutty wall idea (while harping on so - called "illegal immigration") cannot articulate a coherent argument for the wall... which again is not intended to keep anyone out, but just to force them into having human registration papers. And that means the government wants to reduce YOU to statutory slavery because if the immigrant has to have papers, so do you.
Let's look at the part of what you posted here that caught my eye.

We discuss "illegal immigration" as if to imply people are criminals. In American jurisprudence, they are not. Improper Entry is a civil violation of federal law, but it is not a crime. Furthermore, the candidates on both sides of the political spectrum now accept that as legal fact, so it is NOT my personal opinion.
Yes. Nancy Pelosi has said "Just because they are 'illegal' doesn't mean they have done anything 'illegal' " ........... o_O Odd. Because if they are here illegally then they most certainly have done something illegal.

We need to document everyone who comes into the country to stay and work for their protection as well as for our protection.

The part about "urinating away our rights" was crap in regards to immigration. Our rights are being handed out to the government and it will escalate now that Democrats are in control. Democrats want every little thing legislated on a national level: which public restroom everyone gets to use, what we have to call transsexuals, and of course, the right of someone who has been ejected from our country many times and still returns ...............to shoot one of our citizens who is just walking down the street...........and then get a hand slap for time served. Why just a hand slap? Well, of course, because he is "illegal" and those here illegally are protected from any real law.

That's Nancy Pelosi's way.
 

Acurite

Council Member
Too bad. Pelosi is third in line to be president. They allowed her to be Speaker again. She IS the Democratic Party. She wields all the power.
Well, we are drifting off topic here--more thoughts on immigration.
Anyone who questions the democratic party's goal of open borders is promptly charged with racism and bigotry.

These are hard charges to bear but President Trump had the courage to do it....it remains to be seen if he
will have any success with it, of course.

He not only has the democrats working against him but also
the media and all the clueless voters which is a large segment of American People.

Open borders is supported both by humanitarian impulses as well as selfish interests.

The principal selfish interest in unimpeded immigration is easy to identify; it is the interest of the
employers of cheap labor, particularly that needed for degrading jobs.

We have been deceived about
the forces of history by the lines of
Emma Lazarus,inscribed on the Statue of Liberty:

'Give me your tired, your poor
Your huddled masses yearning to
breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming
shore,
Send these, the homeless,tempest-
tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden
door.'

The image is one of an infinitely generous Mother America, passively opening her arms to hordes of
immigrants who come here on their own initiative. Such an image may have been adequate for the early
days of colonization, but by the time these lines were written in 1886 the force for immigration
was largely manufactured inside our own borders by factory and mine owners who sought cheap labor not to be found among laborers already here. One group of foreigners after another was enticed into the United States to work at wretched jobs at wretched wages.

At present of course it is largely the Mexicans who are being so exploited. It is particuarly to the advantage of certain employers that there be many illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrant workers dare not complain about their working conditions for fear of being repatriated.
Their presence reduces the bargaining power of all Mexican-Americans laborers. Cesar Chavez repeatedly pleaded with congressional committees to close the doors to more Mexicans so that those here could negotiate effectively for higher wages and decent working conditions.

Not even to mention all the lives of American citizens who have been degraded by their removal from the Middle Class due to shipping good paying jobs overseas coupled with illegal laborers being allowed into traditionally good paying middle class jobs...simply because they would work cheaper.

It is easy for a smug elitist politician(Nancy Pelosi) to feel good about helping those poor mexicans come up here...forgetting all the harm she is doing to American Citizens and particularly to the middle class.
 
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Due to all the 3rd world immigrants and our so called African-Americans we now rank as a nation #16 on the average i.q. list. As in --the people in 15 countries now have higher average i.q.'s than Americans.

For the ramifictions of that see 'I.Q. and the Wealth of nations.

Wherein....Lynn and Vanhanen test the hypothesis on the causal relationship between the average national intelligence (IQ) and the gap between rich and poor countries by empirical evidence. Based on an extensive survey of national IQ tests, the results of their work challenge the previous theories of economic development and provide a new basis to evaluate the prospects of economic development throughout the world.

https://www.amazon.com/IQ-Wealth-Nations-Richard-Lynn/dp/027597510X
Prometheus Chained to a Wall of Rock

High IQs have created all the world's wealth and must get the same benefits as the children of the wealthy. Nerds commit emotional suicide; A students must become Alpha males and not accept the way society has been manipulated by the wealthy to treat them as socially inept freaks. Those who have not already been emasculated by the parasitic plutocracy's mind control during their youth must unionize and force their employers to pay them 50% of the profits of corporate patents. Everything that happens to them before then sets up that grand larceny and insult to intelligence.
 
True...I think those who believe we oppose immigration get that from the fake news.
Treason Runs Wild
What's the Reason?
Treason Wins Only When
NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON


The fake Right is virtue-signaling to traitors by not opposing legal immigration. It is still cheap labor, so patriots must force the economic elitists to hire Americans instead. The only immigration barrier that shouldn't exist is for marriage, as in the case of the Red Buttons character in the Marlon Brando movie Sayonara.
 
This thread once again illustrates the sad fact that those on the left are chronically unable to distinguish between immigration and illegal immigration.
 
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