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Why don't Banks ever swoop in and bail out ordinary Americans debt?

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Was Jesus one of those lazy shits who didn't contribute?

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"So the original meaning of the Lord’s Prayer in Hebrew and Greek was, 'Forgive us our debts,' because their whole fight in the time that Jesus wrote all over the Roman world was a fight to cancel the debts that were enslaving everybody."
ps. our debts carries both monetary and non monetary connotation
 

write on

Senator
5000 years ago it was understood how debt grows exponentially while production follows a "S" curve:


Michael Hudson has been writing about excessive debt and its moral failings for six decades:

https://peoplesforum.org/events/empire-and-economics-the-long-history-of-debt-cancelation-from-antiquity-to-today/

"Debt plays a central role in upholding the economic and social order of the day.

"In the US, mounting debt and the crippling financialization of our lives is taken as fact.

"Our political leaders see no real problem and offer no serious solution.

"This was not always the case.

"Throughout antiquity, widespread debt-cancellation was understood as a moral and practical necessity...."

"Counter to dominant history and theology, Hudson reveals how the Bible itself is concerned most with the moral failure of economic systems, rather than personal sin."
I'm not trying to jack this thread but, according to Christians, isn't the earth only 6,000 years old?
 

write on

Senator
student debt can't be cancelled because it's like past due taxes. it's owed to a government agency in many cases. you also can't use bankruptcy to discharge traffic fines, financial penalties when you're found guilty in a court of law, damages to a government owned building, fire damage to parkland . . .
I'm not so sure about that.


The way I see it, if corporations* can gain wealth after filing bankruptcy knowing that they can do so off the backs of struggling employees then turn about is fair play.

Do you agree?

*Including Universities
 
Last edited:

write on

Senator
Am I wrong?

It's an attack on education that the far right will fight against to the death. Just ask DeSantis.


We're fvked!

 
Sure would be nice if such things could occur for the ordinary consumer, who's debt load rises exponentially as all this nonsense is occurring
The ordinary consumer received regular debt relief for thousands of years before creditors took control of the Roman state. Creditors have controlled every major nation since that time:

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"That was what the first sermon of Jesus was all about.

"When he went to the synagogue, and Luke explains that he unrolled the scroll of Isaiah the prophet and said, 'I’ve come to proclaim the year of the Lord,' which was the debt cancellation — the Jubilee year — that was brought in from Babylonia into Judaism, as it was done all through the Near East."

"Assyria had it when it conquered Judea.

"Babylonia had it when it conquered Judea and took the exiles to Babylonia, and the exiles, picked up, literally the same word used in Babylonia for a clean slate (debt cancellation), brought it back to Israel, and word for word had the same conditions of a clean slate: when a new ruler took the throne, or when there was other reasons — a war was over, or there was any reason for a debt cancellation — you’d cancel the debts, you’d liberate the debt servants to go back to their families, you’d give them back the pledges that they’d made."
 
I'm not trying to jack this thread but, according to Christians, isn't the earth only 6,000 years old?
Maybe in the Religion forums?

The natural balance between debtors and creditors began to change about 10,000 years ago:

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"Well, all this changed when, in around the eighth century BC, when you have Near Easterners begin to sail westward into the Mediterranean, into Greece, the Aegean and Italy, and they brought the idea of trade, weights and measures, and commercial contracts.

"And also the idea of interest-bearing debt appeared for the first time in the societies.

"There was no concept of interest in in the West, in all of the Linear B documents of Greece, from about 1,600 to 1,200 BC, you had a palatial economy, but there was no concept of interest anywhere."
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
The ordinary consumer received regular debt relief for thousands of years before creditors took control of the Roman state. Creditors have controlled every major nation since that time:

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"That was what the first sermon of Jesus was all about.

"When he went to the synagogue, and Luke explains that he unrolled the scroll of Isaiah the prophet and said, 'I’ve come to proclaim the year of the Lord,' which was the debt cancellation — the Jubilee year — that was brought in from Babylonia into Judaism, as it was done all through the Near East."

"Assyria had it when it conquered Judea.

"Babylonia had it when it conquered Judea and took the exiles to Babylonia, and the exiles, picked up, literally the same word used in Babylonia for a clean slate (debt cancellation), brought it back to Israel, and word for word had the same conditions of a clean slate: when a new ruler took the throne, or when there was other reasons — a war was over, or there was any reason for a debt cancellation — you’d cancel the debts, you’d liberate the debt servants to go back to their families, you’d give them back the pledges that they’d made."
Why are we here?

Let's discuss debt. Jesus is not coming
 
Why are we here?

Let's discuss debt. Jesus is not coming
Jesus died for your debts, not your sins.

"The Ten Commandments were about debt

"People tend to think of the Commandment ‘do not covet your neighbour’s wife’ in purely sexual terms but actually, the economist says it refers specifically to creditors who would force the wives and daughters of debtors into sex slavery as collateral for unpaid debt.

https://braveneweurope.com/renegade-inc-claire-connelly-he-died-for-our-debts-not-our-sins

This particular view claims Jesus was crucified for his opinions on debt.
He was a threat to creditors as a socialist advocate for the continuity of regular debt forgiveness that was/is essential to the wellbeing of economies.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Jesus died for your debts, not your sins.

"The Ten Commandments were about debt

"People tend to think of the Commandment ‘do not covet your neighbour’s wife’ in purely sexual terms but actually, the economist says it refers specifically to creditors who would force the wives and daughters of debtors into sex slavery as collateral for unpaid debt.

https://braveneweurope.com/renegade-inc-claire-connelly-he-died-for-our-debts-not-our-sins

This particular view claims Jesus was crucified for his opinions on debt.
He was a threat to creditors as a socialist advocate for the continuity of regular debt forgiveness that was/is essential to the wellbeing of economies.
Maybe in your church not in mine. My church taught the meaning of the word debt in all its forms
 
Maybe in your church not in mine. My church taught the meaning of the word debt in all its forms
Did your church teach you the word for sin and debt is the same in many languages?

https://michael-hudson.com/2017/12/he-died-for-our-debt-not-our-sins/

"'Most religious leaders say that Christianity is all about sin, not debt,” he says. “But actually, the word for sin and debt is the same in almost every language.'”

”‘Schuld’, in German, means ‘debt’ as well as ‘offense’ or, ‘sin’. It’s ‘devoir’ in French. It had the same duality in meaning in the Babylonian language of Akkadian.'"
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Did your church teach you the word for sin and debt is the same in many languages?

https://michael-hudson.com/2017/12/he-died-for-our-debt-not-our-sins/

"'Most religious leaders say that Christianity is all about sin, not debt,” he says. “But actually, the word for sin and debt is the same in almost every language.'”

”‘Schuld’, in German, means ‘debt’ as well as ‘offense’ or, ‘sin’. It’s ‘devoir’ in French. It had the same duality in meaning in the Babylonian language of Akkadian.'"
More or less yes. What it did not teach me is the amorality of using Church teachings as a means to Aleve myself of my financial debts.
 

Number_58

I'm one of the deplorables lefty warns you about.
Was Jesus one of those lazy shits who didn't contribute?

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"So the original meaning of the Lord’s Prayer in Hebrew and Greek was, 'Forgive us our debts,' because their whole fight in the time that Jesus wrote all over the Roman world was a fight to cancel the debts that were enslaving everybody."
Except that the meaning of the word "debt" in this passage isn't a financial obligation.
 
More or less yes. What it did not teach me is the amorality of using Church teachings as a means to Aleve myself of my financial debts.
Did your church mention rich people are greedy and corrupt?

https://michael-hudson.com/2017/12/he-died-for-our-debt-not-our-sins/

"Over the last 1000 years the Catholic Church has been saying it’s noble to be poor.

"But Jesus never said it was good to be poor.

"What he said was that rich people are greedy and corrupt.

"That’s what Socrates was saying, as well as Aristotle and the Stoic Roman philosophers, the biblical prophets in Isaiah.”

"Neither did Jesus say that it was good to be poor because it made you noble.

"What Jesus did say is that say if you have money, you should share it with other people."
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Did your church mention rich people are greedy and corrupt?

https://michael-hudson.com/2017/12/he-died-for-our-debt-not-our-sins/

"Over the last 1000 years the Catholic Church has been saying it’s noble to be poor.

"But Jesus never said it was good to be poor.

"What he said was that rich people are greedy and corrupt.

"That’s what Socrates was saying, as well as Aristotle and the Stoic Roman philosophers, the biblical prophets in Isaiah.”

"Neither did Jesus say that it was good to be poor because it made you noble.

"What Jesus did say is that say if you have money, you should share it with other people."
At times.

Still aren't addressing the responsibilities of those that take from others then refuse to pay
 
Except that the meaning of the word "debt" in this passage isn't a financial obligation.
How are you interpreting the word "debt"?

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"Almost all debt, in really ancient society, was interpersonal.

"The typical kind of debt was what the Europeans called weregild-type debt.

"If you injured somebody, what are you going to do, if you break an arm, or if you kill them.

"There are two choices ancient society had: either you had a feud, and your family would fight his family, or he’d make restitution.

"And the idea of a restitution payment, that was called a debt like schuld, or devoir, in German and French, you would owe restitution, and that meant that you would settle the conflict and there wouldn’t be fighting."
 

Number_58

I'm one of the deplorables lefty warns you about.
How are you interpreting the word "debt"?

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"Almost all debt, in really ancient society, was interpersonal.

"The typical kind of debt was what the Europeans called weregild-type debt.

"If you injured somebody, what are you going to do, if you break an arm, or if you kill them.

"There are two choices ancient society had: either you had a feud, and your family would fight his family, or he’d make restitution.

"And the idea of a restitution payment, that was called a debt like schuld, or devoir, in German and French, you would owe restitution, and that meant that you would settle the conflict and there wouldn’t be fighting."
Why would I want to know what the Germans and the French said the word "debt" referred to?

The word "debt" in the Lord's Prayer refers to a "tresspass" or "sin". Has nothing to do with a financial obligation.
 
At times.

Still aren't addressing the responsibilities of those that take from others then refuse to pay
As I understand Hudson's argument, once the principle of compound interest became involved with finance, it became mathematically impossible for those who take from other (incur debt) to repay their loans in full since interest multiplies exponentially while the ability to pay off the debts does not.

In the US over the past 40 years the economy has become financialized to such an extent that people today have to pay for rent or food by using their credit card, and the usurious rates of interest guarantee they will never fully repay their debts.

The solution has been known for thousands of years.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
As I understand Hudson's argument, once the principle of compound interest became involved with finance, it became mathematically impossible for those who take from other (incur debt) to repay their loans in full since interest multiplies exponentially while the ability to pay off the debts does not.

In the US over the past 40 years the economy has become financialized to such an extent that people today have to pay for rent or food by using their credit card, and the usurious rates of interest guarantee they will never fully repay their debts.

The solution has been known for thousands of years.
uh..other than the obvious method of lump sum payment.
yikes.
 
Why would I want to know what the Germans and the French said the word "debt" referred to?

The word "debt" in the Lord's Prayer refers to a "tresspass" or "sin". Has nothing to do with a financial obligation.
That's the contemporary definition that began with St. Augustine around the 4th Century:

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"...the word for debt, meant the word for compensation payment, and at the same time, for the injury or for the offense, or the word for ‘sin.’

"So the original meaning of the Lord’s Prayer in Hebrew and Greek was, 'Forgive us our debts,' because their whole fight in the time that Jesus wrote all over the Roman world was a fight to cancel the debts that were enslaving everybody."
 

Number_58

I'm one of the deplorables lefty warns you about.
That's the contemporary definition that began with St. Augustine around the 4th Century:

https://michael-hudson.com/2022/01/on-debt-parasites/

"...the word for debt, meant the word for compensation payment, and at the same time, for the injury or for the offense, or the word for ‘sin.’

"So the original meaning of the Lord’s Prayer in Hebrew and Greek was, 'Forgive us our debts,' because their whole fight in the time that Jesus wrote all over the Roman world was a fight to cancel the debts that were enslaving everybody."
Financial obligation doesn't make sense in the context of the entire passage (are you familar with Matthew Chapter 6?). What financial obligation would I owe God? And, if God meant for me to forgive debtors, I would never collect rent from those that owe me rent, who borrowed money, etc. If one takes the entire passage in context (rather than cherry picking what they choose), Jesus goes on to talk about forgiveness using the word paraptōma ...or tresspass.

Then why would Jesus have said to "pay unto Ceasar"?
 
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