Does Shinseki’s “resignation” fix things, or make it worse?

[as seen on tv]

Great news everybody!! Shinseki is out, and the problem is solved !! We can now move the VA problem off the front page. In a week or two it will be as forgotten as flight MH 370, the Boko Haram kidnapping, or Kathleen Sebelius.

Let me dissent. This doesn’t fix anything. It might make things worse.

We now have the “appearance of justice”. Guilt has been assigned. Closure has been achieved. You want to hold more hearings, senator? “What difference does it make?”

Well, I’m skeptical that Shinseki had much – if anything – to do with the denial of services and fraudulent cover-up in the VA hospital system. I think he never knew. Yes . . . he should be dismissed for that – it was his job to find and fix this sort of thing.

But who DID know about the VA problems? In fact – who masterminded the “solution” (fake appointments, fake waiting lists, and perpetual delays) in order to game the system, and give the APPEARANCE that medical standards were being met? Well, that would be the guys whose job performance reviews and bonuses depend on achieving tthe 14 day appointment goal. Middle managers and hospital administrators. Hundreds of them. . . . thousands, probably. All across the system. Local papers in every city have been running headlines like “Our VA hospital part of probe”. This sort of widespread fraud and deceit – across an entire system – doesn’t happen by chance. It was communicated, put into place, and covered up by the people whom it would benefit the most – the mid level administration guys.

So what’re you gonna do? You can’t fire them all. Then NOBODY gets an appointment, and even more sick vets die. But it does seem “wrong”, and perhaps actually dangerous, to allow these fraudsters to continue their daily routine, only with the a wink and the understanding that they will never lie, cheat or steal again, doesn’t it?

So now we have thousands of pissed off, crooked administrators in VA hospitals, who got “outed” for their crimes, probably will have their bonuses, raises, promotions, etc “clawed back”, and who spend a good portion of each day fervently emailing each other “Do you think we’ll get fired?”

What would an actual solution to the VA mess look like then? You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place.

Let me know if you see anything like this happening, will you? What I predict WILL happen, in addition to the story going to the back page, is that longer wait times will be tolerated under “flexibility”; money will be thrown at the problem without any structural change, and politically connected insiders will oversee the "reform". Because, you know, politically connected insiders can be trusted not to leak anything about how awful things really are.

Imagine if politically connected insiders had been assigned to investigate the Penn State pedophile crimes. Now you get an idea of why I think things might get worse at the VA before they get better.

Full disclosure – “bipartisan congressional committee” is not the same as “avoiding politically connected cover-ups by insiders”. You need a non-political, outside entity to avoid that sort of problem.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Make things worse?

You mean all those Pugs who wanted Shinsheki pushed out were wrong?

;-)

 

[as seen on tv]

Make things worse?

You mean all those Pugs who wanted Shinsheki pushed out were wrong?

;-)

a serious top post. a one sentence rant from someone who never even read it.

thanks for doing your best, and adding intelligence and depth to the discussions here.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

a serious top post. a one sentence rant from someone who never even read it.

thanks for doing your best, and adding intelligence and depth to the discussions here.

Your dodge is noted.

 

[MaryAnne]

a serious top post. a one sentence rant from someone who never even read it.

thanks for doing your best, and adding intelligence and depth to the discussions here.

I read your post and the only thing it will do is lower the venom of the Politicians who refused extra funding in Feb. To shut them up for a Second,until they remember it is Obama they want.

Shinseky felt he would be a detriment to solving the problems. The guy has worked for 6 years to computerize the VA,but of course the slimy weasels in Congress who are not doing the job we pay them for want to deflect from their own guilt. And,notice I I include both parties in this.

Shinseky is a Decorated Hero with 40 years service and 2 Purple Hearts,but that does not matter to those in Congress who never served. We have very few there now who did,and it is time to clean house and elect some new Vets. Those who know what hell war is.

The only ones left are Lindsey and McCain. Lindsey never left stateside and John is showing real signs of senility with his constant rages and need for more war with any one.

This is my opinion,and I hope a new face will solve the problems. Our Vets deserve that.

 

[ITALIA]

Great news everybody!! Shinseki is out, and the problem is solved !! We can now move the VA problem off the front page. In a week or two it will be as forgotten as flight MH 370, the Boko Haram kidnapping, or Kathleen Sebelius.

Let me dissent. This doesn’t fix anything. It might make things worse.

We now have the “appearance of justice”. Guilt has been assigned. Closure has been achieved. You want to hold more hearings, senator? “What difference does it make?”

Well, I’m skeptical that Shinseki had much – if anything – to do with the denial of services and fraudulent cover-up in the VA hospital system. I think he never knew. Yes . . . he should be dismissed for that – it was his job to find and fix this sort of thing.

But who DID know about the VA problems? In fact – who masterminded the “solution” (fake appointments, fake waiting lists, and perpetual delays) in order to game the system, and give the APPEARANCE that medical standards were being met? Well, that would be the guys whose job performance reviews and bonuses depend on achieving tthe 14 day appointment goal. Middle managers and hospital administrators. Hundreds of them. . . . thousands, probably. All across the system. Local papers in every city have been running headlines like “Our VA hospital part of probe”. This sort of widespread fraud and deceit – across an entire system – doesn’t happen by chance. It was communicated, put into place, and covered up by the people whom it would benefit the most – the mid level administration guys.

So what’re you gonna do? You can’t fire them all. Then NOBODY gets an appointment, and even more sick vets die. But it does seem “wrong”, and perhaps actually dangerous, to allow these fraudsters to continue their daily routine, only with the a wink and the understanding that they will never lie, cheat or steal again, doesn’t it?

So now we have thousands of pissed off, crooked administrators in VA hospitals, who got “outed” for their crimes, probably will have their bonuses, raises, promotions, etc “clawed back”, and who spend a good portion of each day fervently emailing each other “Do you think we’ll get fired?”

What would an actual solution to the VA mess look like then? You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place.

Let me know if you see anything like this happening, will you? What I predict WILL happen, in addition to the story going to the back page, is that longer wait times will be tolerated under “flexibility”; money will be thrown at the problem without any structural change, and politically connected insiders will oversee the "reform". Because, you know, politically connected insiders can be trusted not to leak anything about how awful things really are.

Imagine if politically connected insiders had been assigned to investigate the Penn State pedophile crimes. Now you get an idea of why I think things might get worse at the VA before they get better.

Full disclosure – “bipartisan congressional committee” is not the same as “avoiding politically connected cover-ups by insiders”. You need a non-political, outside entity to avoid that sort of problem.

Do you feel good about finally being right about Shinseki resigning after being two weeks reporting that it had already happened? It doesn't fix or make it worse. Your prediction about the crooked administrators doing nothing except worrying all day about getting fired is just a result of your usual belief that government can't do anything right ever unless it is the military killing people. Most of the people in the VA are hard working in lower level positions doing a tough impossible job but it will be fixed in time.

 

[as seen on tv]

I read your post and the only thing it will do is lower the venom of the Politicians who refused extra funding in Feb. To shut them up for a Second,until they remember it is Obama they want.

Shinseky felt he would be a detriment to solving the problems. The guy has worked for 6 years to computerize the VA,but of course the slimy weasels in Congress who are not doing the job we pay them for want to deflect from their own guilt. And,notice I I include both parties in this.

Shinseky is a Decorated Hero with 40 years service and 2 Purple Hearts,but that does not matter to those in Congress who never served. We have very few there now who did,and it is time to clean house and elect some new Vets. Those who know what hell war is.

The only ones left are Lindsey and McCain. Lindsey never left stateside and John is showing real signs of senility with his constant rages and need for more war with any one.

This is my opinion,and I hope a new face will solve the problems. Our Vets deserve that.

i wont for a moment deny that the VA - as well as many other federal branches - have outmoded computer systems. Even being recently engineered and implemented, like the Obamacare site, is apparently no guarantee against inadequacy and failure.

this is why an objective, outside consultant is required. home grown solutions by non experts are almost always over budget, poorly engineered, and lack strategic vision. Twitter was built for a fraction of Obamacare's website cost, handles far more volume, interfaces continuously to more sources and destinations, and is much more reliable.

most people don't know, and will bristle at the notion that shinseki was a poor choice for this job, right from the start. despite being "the highest ranking asian american general in US history", he never had combat troops under his command as a general. The promotion to that rank came after he was injured in vietnam, as so many promotions do. Shinkseki then stumbled around the system for several more years before ending up in a pentagon staff position reporting to Donald Rumsfeld. Shinseki in short order managed to annoy and contradict not only Rumsfeld but several other top military figures with far greater knowledge and experience than he himself had. Shinseki resigned after clashing with rumsfeld and being proved disastrously wrong on several points during his tenure there.

Shinseki was resurrected from retirement 5 years later by an Obama administration more concerned with promoting its diversity values than finding the right person for the job. Aside from having his foot mangled in combat, and owning a laptop, shinseki had minimal experience with medical administration or computer technology. His tenure at the VA was undistinguished, and the problems which grew under his watch were perhaps inevitable, although hardly his fault alone, as he was overmatched since day one.

Asking shinseki to overhaul the VA is like hiring michelle obama's college roommate to design and build the obamacare website. A complete disconnect from the complexity and importance of the task at hand.

 

[as seen on tv]

Do you feel good about finally being right about Shinseki resigning after being two weeks reporting that it had already happened? It doesn't fix or make it worse. Your prediction about the crooked administrators doing nothing except worrying all day about getting fired is just a result of your usual belief that government can't do anything right ever unless it is the military killing people. Most of the people in the VA are hard working in lower level positions doing a tough impossible job but it will be fixed in time.

i apologize for my earlier mis post, and feel good that i have, at long last, given you a topic which you are correct about. enjoy the moment!!!

 

[Jen]

Great news everybody!! Shinseki is out, and the problem is solved !! We can now move the VA problem off the front page. In a week or two it will be as forgotten as flight MH 370, the Boko Haram kidnapping, or Kathleen Sebelius.

Let me dissent. This doesn’t fix anything. It might make things worse.

We now have the “appearance of justice”. Guilt has been assigned. Closure has been achieved. You want to hold more hearings, senator? “What difference does it make?”

Well, I’m skeptical that Shinseki had much – if anything – to do with the denial of services and fraudulent cover-up in the VA hospital system. I think he never knew. Yes . . . he should be dismissed for that – it was his job to find and fix this sort of thing.

But who DID know about the VA problems? In fact – who masterminded the “solution” (fake appointments, fake waiting lists, and perpetual delays) in order to game the system, and give the APPEARANCE that medical standards were being met? Well, that would be the guys whose job performance reviews and bonuses depend on achieving tthe 14 day appointment goal. Middle managers and hospital administrators. Hundreds of them. . . . thousands, probably. All across the system. Local papers in every city have been running headlines like “Our VA hospital part of probe”. This sort of widespread fraud and deceit – across an entire system – doesn’t happen by chance. It was communicated, put into place, and covered up by the people whom it would benefit the most – the mid level administration guys.

So what’re you gonna do? You can’t fire them all. Then NOBODY gets an appointment, and even more sick vets die. But it does seem “wrong”, and perhaps actually dangerous, to allow these fraudsters to continue their daily routine, only with the a wink and the understanding that they will never lie, cheat or steal again, doesn’t it?

So now we have thousands of pissed off, crooked administrators in VA hospitals, who got “outed” for their crimes, probably will have their bonuses, raises, promotions, etc “clawed back”, and who spend a good portion of each day fervently emailing each other “Do you think we’ll get fired?”

What would an actual solution to the VA mess look like then? You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place.

Let me know if you see anything like this happening, will you? What I predict WILL happen, in addition to the story going to the back page, is that longer wait times will be tolerated under “flexibility”; money will be thrown at the problem without any structural change, and politically connected insiders will oversee the "reform". Because, you know, politically connected insiders can be trusted not to leak anything about how awful things really are.

Imagine if politically connected insiders had been assigned to investigate the Penn State pedophile crimes. Now you get an idea of why I think things might get worse at the VA before they get better.

Full disclosure – “bipartisan congressional committee” is not the same as “avoiding politically connected cover-ups by insiders”. You need a non-political, outside entity to avoid that sort of problem.

Shinsecki's leaving does not fix the problem of wait times.
But the Left will pretend this ends it.
They enjoy stonewalling or band-aid-covering a problem just long enough that they feel they are justified in saying "Dude, that's old news".
It's what they do to avoid their many huge and in some cases death-causing mistakes.

 

[freyasman]

I think Shinseki is an [Unwelcome language removed]; I've never liked the guy. That being said, he got thrown under a bus here, and probably didn't deserve it. The VA has been fucked for decades, and the influx of massive numbers of vets from 2 decade long wars was too much to handle even if had worked well before that. He's a sacrifice.... take note, folks. This is what happens when the Government "addresses a problem"; some poor fucker gets fired, and nothing gets fixed.

 

[as seen on tv]

Shinsecki's leaving does not fix the problem of wait times.
But the Left will pretend this ends it.
They enjoy stonewalling or band-aid-covering a problem just long enough that they feel they are justified in saying "Dude, that's old news".
It's what they do to avoid their many huge and in some cases death-causing mistakes.

if the media investigated medicare with the same diligence they recently devoted to the VA medical system, what do you think they would find?

 

[Jen]

if the media investigated medicare with the same diligence they recently devoted to the VA medical system, what do you think they would find?

I don't know. I'm not very familiar with medicare at all. But my guess is that anything that is government run is a mess.

 

[bdtex]

Great news everybody!! Shinseki is out, and the problem is solved !! We can now move the VA problem off the front page. In a week or two it will be as forgotten as flight MH 370, the Boko Haram kidnapping, or Kathleen Sebelius.

Let me dissent. This doesn’t fix anything. It might make things worse.

We now have the “appearance of justice”. Guilt has been assigned. Closure has been achieved. You want to hold more hearings, senator? “What difference does it make?”

Well, I’m skeptical that Shinseki had much – if anything – to do with the denial of services and fraudulent cover-up in the VA hospital system. I think he never knew. Yes . . . he should be dismissed for that – it was his job to find and fix this sort of thing.

But who DID know about the VA problems? In fact – who masterminded the “solution” (fake appointments, fake waiting lists, and perpetual delays) in order to game the system, and give the APPEARANCE that medical standards were being met? Well, that would be the guys whose job performance reviews and bonuses depend on achieving tthe 14 day appointment goal. Middle managers and hospital administrators. Hundreds of them. . . . thousands, probably. All across the system. Local papers in every city have been running headlines like “Our VA hospital part of probe”. This sort of widespread fraud and deceit – across an entire system – doesn’t happen by chance. It was communicated, put into place, and covered up by the people whom it would benefit the most – the mid level administration guys.

So what’re you gonna do? You can’t fire them all. Then NOBODY gets an appointment, and even more sick vets die. But it does seem “wrong”, and perhaps actually dangerous, to allow these fraudsters to continue their daily routine, only with the a wink and the understanding that they will never lie, cheat or steal again, doesn’t it?

So now we have thousands of pissed off, crooked administrators in VA hospitals, who got “outed” for their crimes, probably will have their bonuses, raises, promotions, etc “clawed back”, and who spend a good portion of each day fervently emailing each other “Do you think we’ll get fired?”

What would an actual solution to the VA mess look like then? You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place.

Let me know if you see anything like this happening, will you? What I predict WILL happen, in addition to the story going to the back page, is that longer wait times will be tolerated under “flexibility”; money will be thrown at the problem without any structural change, and politically connected insiders will oversee the "reform". Because, you know, politically connected insiders can be trusted not to leak anything about how awful things really are.

Imagine if politically connected insiders had been assigned to investigate the Penn State pedophile crimes. Now you get an idea of why I think things might get worse at the VA before they get better.

Full disclosure – “bipartisan congressional committee” is not the same as “avoiding politically connected cover-ups by insiders”. You need a non-political, outside entity to avoid that sort of problem.

"You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place." That would be the best way to do it. I'm envisioning Warden Norton's last scene in The Shawshank Redemption too.

 

[as seen on tv]

I think Shinseki is an [Unwelcome language removed]; I've never liked the guy. That being said, he got thrown under a bus here, and probably didn't deserve it. The VA has been fucked for decades, and the influx of massive numbers of vets from 2 decade long wars was too much to handle even if had worked well before that. He's a sacrifice.... take note, folks. This is what happens when the Government "addresses a problem"; some poor fucker gets fired, and nothing gets fixed.

there's no question that the number of troops requiring long term services has spiralled since our invasion of iraq and afghanistan. one can only imagine the magnatude of the crisis if we had WW2 or vietnam era casualty rates today, rather than what we're actually experiencing.

in this regard, i buck the trend and endorse obama's "drones first" approach. boots on the ground, especially during an insurgent style operation where our guys cannot possibly hope to "blend in" with the locals . .. our military men and women are more likely to be targets needing protection rather than effective deterrants of enemy activity.

shinseki deserves blame for only 2 things - not paying close enough attention to the number one metric in his playbook (a serious fault), and his failure to recognize that his dismissal was inevitable, and not offering it sooner rather than waiting to be told. in that regard, he had a bad example from sebelius though.

 

[as seen on tv]

"You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place." That would be the best way to do it. I'm envisioning Warden Norton's last scene in The Shawshank Redemption too.

i never saw that movie. how does it relate? prison pictures aren't my fave.

 

[Alinvegas]

Great news everybody!! Shinseki is out, and the problem is solved !! We can now move the VA problem off the front page. In a week or two it will be as forgotten as flight MH 370, the Boko Haram kidnapping, or Kathleen Sebelius.

Let me dissent. This doesn’t fix anything. It might make things worse.

We now have the “appearance of justice”. Guilt has been assigned. Closure has been achieved. You want to hold more hearings, senator? “What difference does it make?”

Well, I’m skeptical that Shinseki had much – if anything – to do with the denial of services and fraudulent cover-up in the VA hospital system. I think he never knew. Yes . . . he should be dismissed for that – it was his job to find and fix this sort of thing.

But who DID know about the VA problems? In fact – who masterminded the “solution” (fake appointments, fake waiting lists, and perpetual delays) in order to game the system, and give the APPEARANCE that medical standards were being met? Well, that would be the guys whose job performance reviews and bonuses depend on achieving tthe 14 day appointment goal. Middle managers and hospital administrators. Hundreds of them. . . . thousands, probably. All across the system. Local papers in every city have been running headlines like “Our VA hospital part of probe”. This sort of widespread fraud and deceit – across an entire system – doesn’t happen by chance. It was communicated, put into place, and covered up by the people whom it would benefit the most – the mid level administration guys.

So what’re you gonna do? You can’t fire them all. Then NOBODY gets an appointment, and even more sick vets die. But it does seem “wrong”, and perhaps actually dangerous, to allow these fraudsters to continue their daily routine, only with the a wink and the understanding that they will never lie, cheat or steal again, doesn’t it?

So now we have thousands of pissed off, crooked administrators in VA hospitals, who got “outed” for their crimes, probably will have their bonuses, raises, promotions, etc “clawed back”, and who spend a good portion of each day fervently emailing each other “Do you think we’ll get fired?”

What would an actual solution to the VA mess look like then? You bring in private sector consultants – guys who helped design Americas best medical scheduling, tracking and treatment delivery systems. You give them a free hand – charge them with overhauling the system. Then you bite the bullet, implement the reforms, pay what it costs, and fire the a$$holes who were most egregiously involved in making this mess in the first place.

Let me know if you see anything like this happening, will you? What I predict WILL happen, in addition to the story going to the back page, is that longer wait times will be tolerated under “flexibility”; money will be thrown at the problem without any structural change, and politically connected insiders will oversee the "reform". Because, you know, politically connected insiders can be trusted not to leak anything about how awful things really are.

Imagine if politically connected insiders had been assigned to investigate the Penn State pedophile crimes. Now you get an idea of why I think things might get worse at the VA before they get better.

Full disclosure – “bipartisan congressional committee” is not the same as “avoiding politically connected cover-ups by insiders”. You need a non-political, outside entity to avoid that sort of problem.

Like most of them, he was only a figurehead. The bureaucrats run things...

 

[bdtex]

i never saw that movie. how does it relate? prison pictures aren't my fave.

The warden was corrupt and made a comfortable living at it. He got caught and just as he was about to be relieved of his duties and his money,he stuck a revolver under his chin and pulled the trigger. There's probably a few in the VA who have been knowingly derelict in their duties for a long time who would be outed under your proposed solution.

 

[MaryAnne]

i wont for a moment deny that the VA - as well as many other federal branches - have outmoded computer systems. Even being recently engineered and implemented, like the Obamacare site, is apparently no guarantee against inadequacy and failure.

this is why an objective, outside consultant is required. home grown solutions by non experts are almost always over budget, poorly engineered, and lack strategic vision. Twitter was built for a fraction of Obamacare's website cost, handles far more volume, interfaces continuously to more sources and destinations, and is much more reliable.

most people don't know, and will bristle at the notion that shinseki was a poor choice for this job, right from the start. despite being "the highest ranking asian american general in US history", he never had combat troops under his command as a general. The promotion to that rank came after he was injured in vietnam, as so many promotions do. Shinkseki then stumbled around the system for several more years before ending up in a pentagon staff position reporting to Donald Rumsfeld. Shinseki in short order managed to annoy and contradict not only Rumsfeld but several other top military figures with far greater knowledge and experience than he himself had. Shinseki resigned after clashing with rumsfeld and being proved disastrously wrong on several points during his tenure there.

Shinseki was resurrected from retirement 5 years later by an Obama administration more concerned with promoting its diversity values than finding the right person for the job. Aside from having his foot mangled in combat, and owning a laptop, shinseki had minimal experience with medical administration or computer technology. His tenure at the VA was undistinguished, and the problems which grew under his watch were perhaps inevitable, although hardly his fault alone, as he was overmatched since day one.

Asking shinseki to overhaul the VA is like hiring michelle obama's college roommate to design and build the obamacare website. A complete disconnect from the complexity and importance of the task at hand.

You seem to know more about Shinseki than I do. Congress seemed to like him. The voted for him.

However the real culprits are those who created phony lists and lied on their paperwork. Most of that was local, but the shortage of Nurses , Doctors and lack of funding are the problem.

I trust Bernie Sanders on this one. He knows the situation. I do not.

 

[MaryAnne]

Like most of them, he was only a figurehead. The bureaucrats run things...

Those in charge at the local level run most things,Alvin.

 

[as seen on tv]

The warden was corrupt and made a comfortable living at it. He got caught and just as he was about to be relieved of his duties and his money,he stuck a revolver under his chin and pulled the trigger. There's probably a few in the VA who have been knowingly derelict in their duties for a long time who would be outed under your proposed solution.

aha - well, he spared taxpayers the expense of a trial. and his boss from having to persuade him to resign.