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A Democratic Trump

Arkady

President
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy" of appealing to bigotry to get working class whites to support the policies of the oligarchs who exploit them. The way the strategy worked for so many years was to keep the appeals coded. It was all about the "dog whistles" that the racists, xenophobes, and religious bigots would hear, to signal to them that the GOP was more aligned with them, without coming right out and making it overt. So, for example, you might start a political campaign with a states-rights speech near the site of an infamous murder of civil rights workers by white supremacists, so people could connect the dots and understand whose side you were on, but you would be careful not to decode the anti-civil-rights appeal of "states rights."

The clear opening that left was for someone to step in and ignore the unwritten rule that you don't make that sales pitch too explicit. Trump showed up, called Mexican immigrants rapists, used anti-semitic iconography, called for religious discrimination against Muslims, etc. His more frank appeal to the base's basest instincts proved unbeatable for those still trying to keep the bigotry on the down low. It was inevitable someone would eventually seize that opportunity to go full-bigot to win the GOP -- it was just a question of how long the unspoken arrangement not to do so would hold up before some amoral opportunist broke ranks.

So, the question is this -- is there a similar opening among Democrats? Is there some unspoken sales pitch the Dems have been making long-term that an ambitious demagogue could come along and just say outright, seizing the nomination? I can think of examples that would be roughly parallel, but I doubt they'd work out the same way. For example, Democrats generally avoid using openly redistributionist rhetoric of the sort you see from actual communists, even though they pitch more subtly to similar sentiments. They might call John McCain out for owning so many houses that he has lost track of how many he has, and doing that may make an implicit promise that they'll favor policies that work against such excessive pooling of wealth. But, they don't come right out and say they're going to seize all the "extra houses" and distribute them to the homeless. There's clearly an opening for a more fiery lefty to come along and do exactly that -- pitching the dog whistle way down to where it can be undeniably heard by all.

Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?
 
Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?

No. In general, the lefties making these assertions against the wealthy are at least as wealthy (if not more so) than the targets of their tirades. Even the low-information types on the left see this obvious hypocrisy, and rightfully ridicule it.

Only the most naive, skull-punched partisans (like you) still believe the Democrats are "for" the working man and woman.

Hillary Clinton is a Wall Street whore who has massively enriched herself while engaging in a career in "public service". The problem with that is obvious to almost everyone except people like you.
 
Some said Sanders was that guy but he was still a Senator that stayed with in the bounds of the political process...It would be more like a Ralph Nader or Louis Farrakhan that would more closely resemble a Trump....Neither of whom could get much traction on a national level
 
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy" of appealing to bigotry to get working class whites to support the policies of the oligarchs who exploit them. The way the strategy worked for so many years was to keep the appeals coded. It was all about the "dog whistles" that the racists, xenophobes, and religious bigots would hear, to signal to them that the GOP was more aligned with them, without coming right out and making it overt. So, for example, you might start a political campaign with a states-rights speech near the site of an infamous murder of civil rights workers by white supremacists, so people could connect the dots and understand whose side you were on, but you would be careful not to decode the anti-civil-rights appeal of "states rights."

The clear opening that left was for someone to step in and ignore the unwritten rule that you don't make that sales pitch too explicit. Trump showed up, called Mexican immigrants rapists, used anti-semitic iconography, called for religious discrimination against Muslims, etc. His more frank appeal to the base's basest instincts proved unbeatable for those still trying to keep the bigotry on the down low. It was inevitable someone would eventually seize that opportunity to go full-bigot to win the GOP -- it was just a question of how long the unspoken arrangement not to do so would hold up before some amoral opportunist broke ranks.

So, the question is this -- is there a similar opening among Democrats? Is there some unspoken sales pitch the Dems have been making long-term that an ambitious demagogue could come along and just say outright, seizing the nomination? I can think of examples that would be roughly parallel, but I doubt they'd work out the same way. For example, Democrats generally avoid using openly redistributionist rhetoric of the sort you see from actual communists, even though they pitch more subtly to similar sentiments. They might call John McCain out for owning so many houses that he has lost track of how many he has, and doing that may make an implicit promise that they'll favor policies that work against such excessive pooling of wealth. But, they don't come right out and say they're going to seize all the "extra houses" and distribute them to the homeless. There's clearly an opening for a more fiery lefty to come along and do exactly that -- pitching the dog whistle way down to where it can be undeniably heard by all.

Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?
Oh Dear God...this is a hopeless case!

http://blackquillandink.com/?p=6082

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-gop/2787426/posts

http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/nixons-southern-strategy-and-a-liberal-big-lie/
 
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy" of appealing to bigotry to get working class whites to support the policies of the oligarchs who exploit them. The way the strategy worked for so many years was to keep the appeals coded. It was all about the "dog whistles" that the racists, xenophobes, and religious bigots would hear, to signal to them that the GOP was more aligned with them, without coming right out and making it overt. So, for example, you might start a political campaign with a states-rights speech near the site of an infamous murder of civil rights workers by white supremacists, so people could connect the dots and understand whose side you were on, but you would be careful not to decode the anti-civil-rights appeal of "states rights."

The clear opening that left was for someone to step in and ignore the unwritten rule that you don't make that sales pitch too explicit. Trump showed up, called Mexican immigrants rapists, used anti-semitic iconography, called for religious discrimination against Muslims, etc. His more frank appeal to the base's basest instincts proved unbeatable for those still trying to keep the bigotry on the down low. It was inevitable someone would eventually seize that opportunity to go full-bigot to win the GOP -- it was just a question of how long the unspoken arrangement not to do so would hold up before some amoral opportunist broke ranks.

So, the question is this -- is there a similar opening among Democrats? Is there some unspoken sales pitch the Dems have been making long-term that an ambitious demagogue could come along and just say outright, seizing the nomination? I can think of examples that would be roughly parallel, but I doubt they'd work out the same way. For example, Democrats generally avoid using openly redistributionist rhetoric of the sort you see from actual communists, even though they pitch more subtly to similar sentiments. They might call John McCain out for owning so many houses that he has lost track of how many he has, and doing that may make an implicit promise that they'll favor policies that work against such excessive pooling of wealth. But, they don't come right out and say they're going to seize all the "extra houses" and distribute them to the homeless. There's clearly an opening for a more fiery lefty to come along and do exactly that -- pitching the dog whistle way down to where it can be undeniably heard by all.

Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?
IF there is such a creature (a democrat like Trump) I doubt very much he'd get enough support from the left to actually be the nominee.
 
Some said Sanders was that guy but he was still a Senator that stayed with in the bounds of the political process...It would be more like a Ralph Nader or Louis Farrakhan that would more closely resemble a Trump....Neither of whom could get much traction on a national level
Jill Stein is flirting in the ballpark of that sales pitch, with an outright promise to erase the debt of student loan borrowers. So far, it doesn't seem to be catching on.

Good point about Farrakhan. In theory, something similar could be done along racial lines. It's tough to imagine that could work, though, since even within the Democratic Party, whites remain the plurality. Maybe it could happen, in the future, with a Latino candidate, if Latinos wind up the plurality in the party. Then you might get someone promising completely open immigration, for example.
 
Exactly. Thank you for making my point.
Oh gee...I should have said...'A democrat who IS LIKE Trump'. Now, although you will still vote for the gas-bag, you are saying he's really a democrat?
Nice excuse for you to make pre-election, to cover your ass post-election if he wins and completely destroys this country.
 
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy" of appealing to bigotry to get working class whites to support the policies of the oligarchs who exploit them. The way the strategy worked for so many years was to keep the appeals coded. It was all about the "dog whistles" that the racists, xenophobes, and religious bigots would hear, to signal to them that the GOP was more aligned with them, without coming right out and making it overt. So, for example, you might start a political campaign with a states-rights speech near the site of an infamous murder of civil rights workers by white supremacists, so people could connect the dots and understand whose side you were on, but you would be careful not to decode the anti-civil-rights appeal of "states rights."

The clear opening that left was for someone to step in and ignore the unwritten rule that you don't make that sales pitch too explicit. Trump showed up, called Mexican immigrants rapists, used anti-semitic iconography, called for religious discrimination against Muslims, etc. His more frank appeal to the base's basest instincts proved unbeatable for those still trying to keep the bigotry on the down low. It was inevitable someone would eventually seize that opportunity to go full-bigot to win the GOP -- it was just a question of how long the unspoken arrangement not to do so would hold up before some amoral opportunist broke ranks.

So, the question is this -- is there a similar opening among Democrats? Is there some unspoken sales pitch the Dems have been making long-term that an ambitious demagogue could come along and just say outright, seizing the nomination? I can think of examples that would be roughly parallel, but I doubt they'd work out the same way. For example, Democrats generally avoid using openly redistributionist rhetoric of the sort you see from actual communists, even though they pitch more subtly to similar sentiments. They might call John McCain out for owning so many houses that he has lost track of how many he has, and doing that may make an implicit promise that they'll favor policies that work against such excessive pooling of wealth. But, they don't come right out and say they're going to seize all the "extra houses" and distribute them to the homeless. There's clearly an opening for a more fiery lefty to come along and do exactly that -- pitching the dog whistle way down to where it can be undeniably heard by all.

Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?

First let's look at your debunked Southern Strategy
It was debunked in 2006 by the NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10Section2b.t-4.html?_r=0

The Republican winning in the South was directly related to Northerner (aka Fromer Democrats) who saw what democrats were allowed to do in these States, Segregation, lynchings, killings, KKK, and all made legal by state run Democrats in Govt who would not risk losing their voters.

Remember in 1964 the Democrats voted for civil rights at a rate of 69 percent

The Senate version:[21]

  • Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%)
  • Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[21]

  • Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%)
  • Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%)
The average here voting for at 66 percent would be the highest ever for thr democratic.
I used the Strike though to point out certain areas the weren't actual fact. One does have to wonder why would we have a civil rights bill which needed to include the right to vote for the"Negro" when they were given the right to vote in 1875 by Republicans right? Because the Democrats took that right away.
 
Yes, I'm well aware that disreputable right-wing propaganda sites don't like it when the historical fact of Nixon's Southern Strategy is discussed.

Yes it is noted that lies fit your narrative better.

How is it that Democrats never voted at the same percentage as Republicans on civil rights bills?
 
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy" of appealing to bigotry to get working class whites to support the policies of the oligarchs who exploit them. The way the strategy worked for so many years was to keep the appeals coded. It was all about the "dog whistles" that the racists, xenophobes, and religious bigots would hear, to signal to them that the GOP was more aligned with them, without coming right out and making it overt. So, for example, you might start a political campaign with a states-rights speech near the site of an infamous murder of civil rights workers by white supremacists, so people could connect the dots and understand whose side you were on, but you would be careful not to decode the anti-civil-rights appeal of "states rights."

The clear opening that left was for someone to step in and ignore the unwritten rule that you don't make that sales pitch too explicit. Trump showed up, called Mexican immigrants rapists, used anti-semitic iconography, called for religious discrimination against Muslims, etc. His more frank appeal to the base's basest instincts proved unbeatable for those still trying to keep the bigotry on the down low. It was inevitable someone would eventually seize that opportunity to go full-bigot to win the GOP -- it was just a question of how long the unspoken arrangement not to do so would hold up before some amoral opportunist broke ranks.

So, the question is this -- is there a similar opening among Democrats? Is there some unspoken sales pitch the Dems have been making long-term that an ambitious demagogue could come along and just say outright, seizing the nomination? I can think of examples that would be roughly parallel, but I doubt they'd work out the same way. For example, Democrats generally avoid using openly redistributionist rhetoric of the sort you see from actual communists, even though they pitch more subtly to similar sentiments. They might call John McCain out for owning so many houses that he has lost track of how many he has, and doing that may make an implicit promise that they'll favor policies that work against such excessive pooling of wealth. But, they don't come right out and say they're going to seize all the "extra houses" and distribute them to the homeless. There's clearly an opening for a more fiery lefty to come along and do exactly that -- pitching the dog whistle way down to where it can be undeniably heard by all.

Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?

The Democratic base was not mentally abused by the party with constant conspiracy theories and insane rhetoric coming from the party itself like the gopers were. TrumpZilla is a direct result of Obama hate fed to these people for the last 8 yrs. They created that monster.

Sure the Dems could be that irresponsible and reckless, but so far they have not.
 
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy"...

You lost it.

More "Trump is Hitler" or "Trump is a Racist" talk.

If you can't have civil policy discussion, and have to exaggerate things negatively about the person you don't like to stand a chance... well, you won't have very meaningful debate.
 
Jill Stein is flirting in the ballpark of that sales pitch, with an outright promise to erase the debt of student loan borrowers. So far, it doesn't seem to be catching on.

Good point about Farrakhan. In theory, something similar could be done along racial lines. It's tough to imagine that could work, though, since even within the Democratic Party, whites remain the plurality. Maybe it could happen, in the future, with a Latino candidate, if Latinos wind up the plurality in the party. Then you might get someone promising completely open immigration, for example.
None of the Above, Which All Come From Above

As usual, the ruling class you bow to has channeled you into multiple choices, all of which are wrong. All productive options have been kept outside the vault you've locked yourself in. Try to think some thought you've never been told to think. Or even told not to think, because that would start you questioning.
 
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Yes it is noted that lies fit your narrative better.

How is it that Democrats never voted at the same percentage as Republicans on civil rights bills?
For most of its history, the Republicans supported high tariffs. So, given your distortion of logic, shouldn't a free trader vote Democratic? Who is feeding you these absurd talking points? Your talk show nannies just want to own your mind.
 
I think intelligent people are more likely to point a finger at Obama, 12 million illegal alien Mexicans, and terrorism fears than "Nixon" in identifying factors that led to the rise of Trump.
 
I think intelligent people are more likely to point a finger at Obama, 12 million illegal alien Mexicans, and terrorism fears than "Nixon" in identifying factors that led to the rise of Trump.

I disagree.

I think they'll point to a unified agreement among the people of our country in regards to corruption, bribery, and dirty backroom norms in Washington and in the political system.. and the names that go with it: Bush, Clinton, Obama, McCain, etc. The Royal Family setup of major political parties. Political party Corporations.

That's what led to Trump, and rightfully so. He's making a lot of corrupt, dirty people in Washington nervous.

His #1 draw is that he's an individual, a breath of fresh air, and isn't generationally tied to take bribes and act against public interest. Almost nobody thinks "Washington" and our political system is healthy anymore, once you take the party names out of the equation.

Also remember, anybody who became wealthy while only holding public office and working in politics is a crook.
 
For most of its history, the Republicans supported high tariffs. So, given your distortion of logic, shouldn't a free trader vote Democratic? Who is feeding you these absurd talking points? Your talk show nannies just want to own your mind.

Should a free trader vote democratic and let the trade balance favor the other country?
 
I think that when historians look back at the 2016 election, the rise of Trump will seem like an inevitability -- someone like him was bound to take over the GOP, it was just a question of when. The reason for that was a clear opening in the Republican strategy. Going back to Nixon, the GOP used the so-called "Southern Strategy" of appealing to bigotry to get working class whites to support the policies of the oligarchs who exploit them. The way the strategy worked for so many years was to keep the appeals coded. It was all about the "dog whistles" that the racists, xenophobes, and religious bigots would hear, to signal to them that the GOP was more aligned with them, without coming right out and making it overt. So, for example, you might start a political campaign with a states-rights speech near the site of an infamous murder of civil rights workers by white supremacists, so people could connect the dots and understand whose side you were on, but you would be careful not to decode the anti-civil-rights appeal of "states rights."

The clear opening that left was for someone to step in and ignore the unwritten rule that you don't make that sales pitch too explicit. Trump showed up, called Mexican immigrants rapists, used anti-semitic iconography, called for religious discrimination against Muslims, etc. His more frank appeal to the base's basest instincts proved unbeatable for those still trying to keep the bigotry on the down low. It was inevitable someone would eventually seize that opportunity to go full-bigot to win the GOP -- it was just a question of how long the unspoken arrangement not to do so would hold up before some amoral opportunist broke ranks.

So, the question is this -- is there a similar opening among Democrats? Is there some unspoken sales pitch the Dems have been making long-term that an ambitious demagogue could come along and just say outright, seizing the nomination? I can think of examples that would be roughly parallel, but I doubt they'd work out the same way. For example, Democrats generally avoid using openly redistributionist rhetoric of the sort you see from actual communists, even though they pitch more subtly to similar sentiments. They might call John McCain out for owning so many houses that he has lost track of how many he has, and doing that may make an implicit promise that they'll favor policies that work against such excessive pooling of wealth. But, they don't come right out and say they're going to seize all the "extra houses" and distribute them to the homeless. There's clearly an opening for a more fiery lefty to come along and do exactly that -- pitching the dog whistle way down to where it can be undeniably heard by all.

Would that work? If a lefty demagogue channeled Trump-style vicious rhetoric towards the wealthy, and started making elaborate, unrealistic promises to the base (like Trump's magic wall to be paid for by Mexico), would the dispossessed masses line up for the candidate? If a lefty Trump spoke the previously unspoken, would he or she actually run away with the nomination the way Trump did?
I think Bernie Sanders is a step in that direction. For the past quarter century the democratic party has been dominated by centrist reasonable people ala Clinton and Obama. The world's not perfect but its not falling apart either. The fringe left doesn't see it that way. They have seen the political success the fringe right has had recently. They too can cook up some conspiracy theories and use superlatives constantly. It is entirely plausible the left rallies around a charismatic left wing troll. In 10 years i will be surprised to a centrist candidate.
 
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