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Living Under The Gun

You said the background checks were ended.

That is not so.
 
You said the background checks were ended.

That is not so.
You might want to read my post again. I said ,"The Brady Bill expired in 2004,"I said nothing at all about back ground checks, but will now. Gun sellers have to have back ground checks. Any nut can buy a gun at a gun show.
 
Typical knee jerk reaction of the left.






Forward with the Panhandler-in-Chief
ORR, FYI,I have very good reason to despise the NRA and their insistance on weakoning gun laws. I would feel the same if I was a strong conservative,which I am on many things. Not this one!

I do not like abortion. I also do not like how easy it is to kill people that are already born. Can you say different?

I will also add this. Your statement at the bottom of your post reminds me of a preteen..
 
This is for those who think the Brady bill is still in effect as some have posted. It ran out in 2004 and Congress refused to reinstate it.The Brady family was all over pleading with them to pass it again. Brady in his wheel chair with his wife pushing him.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15640...nder_the_gun?akid=9098.113241.YJ2Buv&rd=1&t=6

Here's one big thing that I don't understand about these persistent gun control arguments: just about everyone agrees that some reasonable limitations on the right to bear arms exist. We needn't even wade into the deep end of artillery or high explosives. Let's take fully automatic weapons as our example.

It's been relatively difficult – at best – for private citizens to possess fully automatic weapons here in the U.S. for about 80 years now. To purchase or possess one a person has to register the gun, get and maintain a relatively expensive federal permit, and pass a federal background check. There are also restrictions on when the gun was manufactured, nothing made after 1986 is legal. These restrictions have seen to it that automatic weapons are relatively rare and we don't see a lot of crimes being committed with them. This is in stark contrast to the situation before these firearms control laws were first enacted back in the thirties.

Have these restrictions on machine guns stopped gun crime? Certainly not. But on the whole the vast majority of folks agree that it's better that gangs aren't routinely shooting it out and outlaws aren't regularly sticking up banks with Tommy Guns or BARs as they did in the Roaring '20s. Just seems like common sense...

So why is there such reluctance to even discuss other restrictions that might make sense – restrictions such as limitations on magazine size that might at least help mitigate the harm that can be done when someone snaps and goes on a killing spree? I mean, if one wishes to argue the value of paramilitary firearms for sport and/or personal defense, then why stop with high-capacity magazines and combat-oriented designs? Shoot, an M240 machine gun is going to be a lot handier for defending one's redoubt from roving bands of post-collapse looters or the odd bunch of psycho-killers than some measly old AR-15. An M2 heavy machine gun might be even better, but good luck getting one of those. It won't be easy, even if you're a law-abiding citizen with a squeaky clean record, and it won't be cheap. Depending on where you live it may not be possible at all.

Should it be easier?

How about if I organize a national M2 heavy machine gun target shooting competition? Sanctioning body, rules, organized events, the whole nine yards... Then, everyone who wants one will have a legitimate sporting reason to own a fully automatic, .50 caliber M2.

If such a competition existed, would it then make sense to change the laws to make it easier to buy an M2? Most folks would say no. There's really not much debate except among the fringe enthusiasts who want what they want for whatever personal reason.

Given that most folks agree that there should be a line, it seems disingenuous to argue as if one were defending (or, I suppose, attacking) absolute freedoms.

Cheers.

P.S. Lest there be any misunderstanding, I'm certainly not accusing you of making these sorts of disingenuous arguments, MaryAnne. I just stuck this reply onto your top post because it vaguely seemed to fit the general topic and the board. :)
 
This is for those who think the Brady bill is still in effect as some have posted. It ran out in 2004 and Congress refused to reinstate it.The Brady family was all over pleading with them to pass it again. Brady in his wheel chair with his wife pushing him.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15640...nder_the_gun?akid=9098.113241.YJ2Buv&rd=1&t=6

There is a petition on one of these links.. MaryAnne... Brady .. regard him as a hero..


_______________________________________________________________
Campaign To Hold Politicians Accountable To Act
Jul 20, 2012
excerpt:
Statement from Brady Campaign President Dan Gross in response to the massacre in Aurora, Colorado:


“On behalf of the Brady Campaign, I send our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims and survivors of the mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado.

This tragedy is another grim reminder that guns are the enablers of mass killers and that our nation pays an unacceptable price for our failure to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. We are outraged
http://bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/1510/




Politicizing Guns: If Not Now, When?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-...un-control_b_1691788.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
 
Here's one big thing that I don't understand about these persistent gun control arguments: just about everyone agrees that some reasonable limitations on the right to bear arms exist. We needn't even wade into the deep end of artillery or high explosives. Let's take fully automatic weapons as our example.

It's been relatively difficult – at best – for private citizens to possess fully automatic weapons here in the U.S. for about 80 years now. To purchase or possess one a person has to register the gun, get and maintain a relatively expensive federal permit, and pass a federal background check. There are also restrictions on when the gun was manufactured, nothing made after 1986 is legal. These restrictions have seen to it that automatic weapons are relatively rare and we don't see a lot of crimes being committed with them. This is in stark contrast to the situation before these firearms control laws were first enacted back in the thirties.

Have these restrictions on machine guns stopped gun crime? Certainly not. But on the whole the vast majority of folks agree that it's better that gangs aren't routinely shooting it out and outlaws aren't regularly sticking up banks with Tommy Guns or BARs as they did in the Roaring '20s. Just seems like common sense...

So why is there such reluctance to even discuss other restrictions that might make sense – restrictions such as limitations on magazine size that might at least help mitigate the harm that can be done when someone snaps and goes on a killing spree? I mean, if one wishes to argue the value of paramilitary firearms for sport and/or personal defense, then why stop with high-capacity magazines and combat-oriented designs? Shoot, an M240 machine gun is going to be a lot handier for defending one's redoubt from roving bands of post-collapse looters or the odd bunch of psycho-killers than some measly old AR-15. An M2 heavy machine gun might be even better, but good luck getting one of those. It won't be easy, even if you're a law-abiding citizen with a squeaky clean record, and it won't be cheap. Depending on where you live it may not be possible at all.

Should it be easier?

How about if I organize a national M2 heavy machine gun target shooting competition? Sanctioning body, rules, organized events, the whole nine yards... Then, everyone who wants one will have a legitimate sporting reason to own a fully automatic, .50 caliber M2.

If such a competition existed, would it then make sense to change the laws to make it easier to buy an M2? Most folks would say no. There's really not much debate except among the fringe enthusiasts who want what they want for whatever personal reason.

Given that most folks agree that there should be a line, it seems disingenuous to argue as if one were defending (or, I suppose, attacking) absolute freedoms.

Cheers.

P.S. Lest there be any misunderstanding, I'm certainly not accusing you of making these sorts of disingenuous arguments, MaryAnne. I just stuck this reply onto your top post because it vaguely seemed to fit the general topic and the board. :)

No problem Havelock. I am happy to discuss.Problem is the laws have been so weakened over the years that Prosecutors can really do nothing.

This guy was allowed to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition over the internet and buy the guns legally.
 
There is a petition on one of these links.. MaryAnne... Brady .. regard him as a hero..


_______________________________________________________________
Campaign To Hold Politicians Accountable To Act
Jul 20, 2012
excerpt:
Statement from Brady Campaign President Dan Gross in response to the massacre in Aurora, Colorado:


“On behalf of the Brady Campaign, I send our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims and survivors of the mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado.

This tragedy is another grim reminder that guns are the enablers of mass killers and that our nation pays an unacceptable price for our failure to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. We are outraged
http://bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/1510/





Politicizing Guns: If Not Now, When?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-...un-control_b_1691788.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

I do Addy.After watching him and his wife fight so hard to reinstate the Brady bill and Congress refused. Brady was having so much trouble speaking and was almost in tears. That was in 2004.
 
We are a nation founded on violence, racism, genocide and domination. We are defined by our crimes. Guns and the attraction they hold for a large segment of the population is pure Americana. I for one am disgusted by what I see but then again, most of what I see in America these days disgusts me.
 
Bill Moyers gets a thumbs up on that article he nailed it

The timing of NRA speeches may well be 'coincidental', but there is nothing coincidental in the fact that the Brady legislation was 'allowed to lapse' under a GOPer prez and a GOPer congress.
 
To purchase or possess one a person has to register the gun, get and maintain a relatively expensive federal permit, and pass a federal background check.

Or acquire/purchase the parts and/or instructions needed to convert a semi-auto to fully-auto. This is less difficult.

Given that most folks agree that there should be a line, it seems disingenuous to argue as if one were defending (or, I suppose, attacking) absolute freedoms.

Completely agree with this. The argument is over where the line should be
 
Alternet? What happened to MoveOn (or can't, rather), Don't Think Progress, Media Matters (or doesn't, really), DailyKos (Kause truth just doesn't matter), and that bastion of liberal mindset and thinking (term used loosely in liberals/lefties' case)....DemocRaticUnderground?

Anyway.....the law of the land in America is the way it is because MOST Americans don't want more restrictive gun laws. And yet, lefties are still pushing to force most Americans to live under laws they didn't want, don't want and never WILL want.....like Obamacare.

You are in the minority. I suggest that you deal with that reality. Or....you could always attempt to make it another spectacular Obama 2012 campaign issue....

like that ""war"" on women bullshit.

Go ahead.

I dare ya!

This is for those who think the Brady bill is still in effect as some have posted. It ran out in 2004 and Congress refused to reinstate it.The Brady family was all over pleading with them to pass it again. Brady in his wheel chair with his wife pushing him.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15640...nder_the_gun?akid=9098.113241.YJ2Buv&rd=1&t=6
 
Yeah....cause.....allowing laws passed by your opposition to lapse or expire.....is illegal (not)....the way Obama wanted to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire/lapse, but probably won't now ONLY because he's running again (when is he NOT campaigning). Much like.....reversing such legally passed laws with the stroke of a pen, via Executive Order (like Obama just did with welfare reform), should be illegal. Instead, it's just highly unethical and blatantly arrogant abuse of power.

Nothing like that olde leftist/DemocRat double-standard hypocrisy.

The timing of NRA speeches may well be 'coincidental', but there is nothing coincidental in the fact that the Brady legislation was 'allowed to lapse' under a GOPer prez and a GOPer congress.
 
He had no record, no reason for him to NOT be allowed to purchase a weapon. And again, he would have been able to get those guns even IF he had lived in a leftie state with restrictive gun laws. It never stops those that intend to break the law. Gun laws only prevent law-abiding citizens from being armed for self-defense.

Holmes' gun purchases were 'legal', from licensed gun dealers. So many of those nuts can buy anywhere.
 
ORR, FYI,I have very good reason to despise the NRA and their insistance on weakoning gun laws. I would feel the same if I was a strong conservative,which I am on many things. Not this one!

I do not like abortion. I also do not like how easy it is to kill people that are already born. Can you say different?

I will also add this. Your statement at the bottom of your post reminds me of a preteen..

MA, The gun laws were not weakened when the assualt weapons ban was allowed to expire. That is because the weapons that were banned before without and FFL, were still banned without an FFL. It was the look alike weapons that were once again available for purchase.

Yes, I can say the same about abortion. I see no reason for it except for the life of the mother.


Maybe that is because there is truth in it. Here it is once more just for you.






Forward with the Panhandler-in-Chief
 
I do Addy.After watching him and his wife fight so hard to reinstate the Brady bill and Congress refused. Brady was having so much trouble speaking and was almost in tears. That was in 2004.

MaryAnne, here is something for you to think about. Hinkley used a Rohm RG-14 22 caliber revolver. This handgun was still available after the Assualt Weapons ban took affect. That is because the Assualt Weapons ban did not address revolvers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr

So the Assualt Weapons Ban was nothing more than an attempt of the gun grabbing left to restrict legal firearms out of the hands of the general public.













Forward with the Panhandler-in-Chief
 
This is for those who think the Brady bill is still in effect as some have posted. It ran out in 2004 and Congress refused to reinstate it.The Brady family was all over pleading with them to pass it again. Brady in his wheel chair with his wife pushing him.

You are misrepresenting the facts and the law.

The Brady ACT (once a Bill becomes law it is called an Act) remains on the books. The only part of the Brady Act that is not in force now is the 5 day waiting period which was replaced by the Instant Background Check in 1998.

The "Assault Weapons Ban" was part of a different law titled the "Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act". The two Bills were introduced separately, debated separately and signed into law separately.

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act
Introduced as H.R.1025 by Rep. Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) on February 22, 1993
Passed the House of Representatives on November 10, 1993 (238 - 189)
Passed the Senate on November 20, 1993 (63-36)
Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993

Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (Including Title XI, subtitle A -- AKA "Assault Weapons Ban")
Introduced in the House as H.R. 3355 by Jack Brooks (D-TX) on October 26, 1993
Passed the House on November 3, 1993
Passed the Senate on November 19, 1993
Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 13, 1994

While the ban did name 19 specific guns the criteria for prohibition was entirely cosmetic and firearms functionally identical to the "banned" guns remained legal to manufacture, distribute, sell and own federally. It really didn't ban anything -- including high capacity clips so the oft heard statements that the shooter of Rep Giffords would not have been able to acquire the extended magazine for the Glock pistol is also false.


That commentary has so many ridiculous and incorrect statements all it demonstrates is just how pathetic a journalist looks when spinning for a political agenda.

Moyers begins lamenting NRA officer Wayne LaPierre's "cosmic sense of timing" where he speaks about guns and killers kill with guns . . . What a despicable and spurious correlation to draw. It is also ridiculous because LaPierre's job is to day-in-day-out make those statements -- that Moyers needs to strain to find an instance in 2007 and then his recent appearance at the UN ignores the hundreds of appearances he has made, spoke in similar fashion and no mass homicides occurred afterwards . . . The only thing of cosmic proportions is Moyers' disingenuousness.

LaPierre didn't just "show up" at the UN -- the NRA has Non-Governmental Organization status and has the right and duty to speak on issues that the organization is interested in. Again, disingenuous spin.

Moyers statement that "Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns than guns" is another stupid statement that would only appeal to the ignorant and gullible. Especially when no connection is drawn to his "Oregon Trail" self-inflicted gun deaths and the reason why that as millions of guns are added every year accidental deaths are on a downward trend for the last century.

Moyers says that we Americans are, "Fooling ourselves that the law could allow even an inflamed lunatic to easily acquire murderous weapons and not expect murderous consequences." Really????? The law allows? Moyers is the either the fool if he believes that or believes YOU are a fool for believing him. Yeah there is a fool here and it isn't people who know the law; it is the people who think Moyer's disingenuousness "nails it".

Moyers also accuses Americans that we are "Fooling ourselves that the Second Amendment’s guarantee of a “well-regulated militia” be construed as a God-given right to purchase and own just about any weapon of destruction you like, a license for murder and mayhem. A great fraud has entered our history." The only one fooling themselves so they can embrace a fraud are the ones that need to misrepresent what the 2nd Amendment says in plain language and to posit that "murder and mayhem" can be, in any manner, the exercise of a "right" in any sense of the word. More disingenuousness.

Is Moyers introducing Islamic jihadist Adam Gadahn into the discussion an attack on the 1st Amendment or the 2nd Amendment? It certainly has not resulted in those who would consider Gadahn's words as marching orders, going out and doing what Gadahn suggests. What is Moyers point here? None of the guns used in the Aurora shooting were acquired in the manner Gadahn instructs, so really, what is he talking about?

Moyers closes with, "The NRA is the enabler of death -- paranoid, delusional and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel and deadly hoax."


Hyperbole much? The only one appearing, foolish, unhinged and sociopathic is Moyers.
 
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