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A challenge regarding the alleged misogyny double standard

Arkady

President
One front in the right-wing commentariate's defense of Rush Limbaugh has been the assertion that liberals are hypocrites because they attack Limbaugh for using misogynist rhetoric while giving liberals a free pass for similar rhetoric. So, with that line of argument being the quasi-official battle plan from the top, I've seen a number of obedient ditto-heads here repeat it, alleging there's a double standard.

First, let me admit that, human nature being what it is, of course there's going to be some double standard. It's almost impossible not to be at least a little rougher on those you thoroughly despise than on those you find yourself agreeing with on many topics. When attacking someone she regards as an unredeemable blot on humanity, like Limbaugh, a liberal feminist is likely to be harsher than when attacking someone whom she has some respect for on some topics, like Bill Maher. Only someone with the most naive grasp of human nature would expect people to suppress that tendency entirely.

The point I want people to consider, though, is how hilariously inane and hypocritical accusations of a double standard are when coming from a conservative. Whatever evidence one can find of a double standard on the left, there is a staggeringly larger one on the right. Here's a challenge for you. Search for examples of well-established liberal commentators openly and aggressively attacking people like Maher, Keith Olbermann, Michael Moore, etc. for misogynistic rhetoric directed at conservative women. I'm talking about real criticism, not a grudging admission of wrongdoing as an opening gambit in an article mainly written as an apologia for the accused or a counter-attack on conservatives. It's easy to find such examples, but if your Googling skills are lousy, let me know and I'll share some examples. Now, here's the challenge: do the same for conservative columnists attacking conservative-leaning commentators who've directed misogynistic rhetoric at liberal women.

If you honestly try this, you'll be left with an unavoidable conclusion: whatever the double-standard on the left, it is negligible in the context of the double-standard on the right. Many of the liberals who've attacked Limbaugh also have a track record of taking liberals to task for similar rhetoric. None of the conservatives, that I've seen, have any comparable track record of taking Limbaugh to task for his language.

So, unless you're the exceedingly rare conservative who can point to a track record of taking on conservative commentators for their misogynistic rhetoric (or something similar), please spare us your sanctimonious blather about liberal double standards. You and your whole side of the political spectrum simply lack the moral standing to make that criticism. Whatever our sins on this front, yours are much worse.
 
Straw-man Liberal caricatures are the most malevolent beings to have ever walked the face of this Earth. Thank God they only exist in the warped minds of paranoid sociopaths.
 
One front in the right-wing commentariate's defense of Rush Limbaugh has been the assertion that liberals are hypocrites because they attack Limbaugh for using misogynist rhetoric while giving liberals a free pass for similar rhetoric. So, with that line of argument being the quasi-official battle plan from the top, I've seen a number of obedient ditto-heads here repeat it, alleging there's a double standard.

First, let me admit that, human nature being what it is, of course there's going to be some double standard. It's almost impossible not to be at least a little rougher on those you thoroughly despise than on those you find yourself agreeing with on many topics. When attacking someone she regards as an unredeemable blot on humanity, like Limbaugh, a liberal feminist is likely to be harsher than when attacking someone whom she has some respect for on some topics, like Bill Maher. Only someone with the most naive grasp of human nature would expect people to suppress that tendency entirely.

The point I want people to consider, though, is how hilariously inane and hypocritical accusations of a double standard are when coming from a conservative. Whatever evidence one can find of a double standard on the left, there is a staggeringly larger one on the right. Here's a challenge for you. Search for examples of well-established liberal commentators openly and aggressively attacking people like Maher, Keith Olbermann, Michael Moore, etc. for misogynistic rhetoric directed at conservative women. I'm talking about real criticism, not a grudging admission of wrongdoing as an opening gambit in an article mainly written as an apologia for the accused or a counter-attack on conservatives. It's easy to find such examples, but if your Googling skills are lousy, let me know and I'll share some examples. Now, here's the challenge: do the same for conservative columnists attacking conservative-leaning commentators who've directed misogynistic rhetoric at liberal women.

If you honestly try this, you'll be left with an unavoidable conclusion: whatever the double-standard on the left, it is negligible in the context of the double-standard on the right. Many of the liberals who've attacked Limbaugh also have a track record of taking liberals to task for similar rhetoric. None of the conservatives, that I've seen, have any comparable track record of taking Limbaugh to task for his language.

So, unless you're the exceedingly rare conservative who can point to a track record of taking on conservative commentators for their misogynistic rhetoric (or something similar), please spare us your sanctimonious blather about liberal double standards. You and your whole side of the political spectrum simply lack the moral standing to make that criticism. Whatever our sins on this front, yours are much worse.

maher called palin a tw*t and a c*nt.

find me one conservative who's uttered similar.

you're a phony
 
If you honestly try this, you'll be left with an unavoidable conclusion: whatever the double-standard on the left, it is negligible in the context of the double-standard on the right. Many of the liberals who've attacked Limbaugh also have a track record of taking liberals to task for similar rhetoric. None of the conservatives, that I've seen, have any comparable track record of taking Limbaugh to task for his language.

So, unless you're the exceedingly rare conservative who can point to a track record of taking on conservative commentators for their misogynistic rhetoric (or something similar), please spare us your sanctimonious blather about liberal double standards. You and your whole side of the political spectrum simply lack the moral standing to make that criticism. Whatever our sins on this front, yours are much worse.

Nothing I can add, it's all true. So good to have you back with us, Arkady! Thanx.
 
No double standard for me.I am just as disgusted with the Left when they insult as I am the right.

However in this latest case a person on the public airwaves was allowed to rant and say insulting things day after day. The 2 words are just the tip of the iceberg in this case.

Rush commented over and over his imagination of what the Law Students sex life was.Asked for her to post videos of his imagined sex life and even his apology was absurd, trying to say he came down to the level of the other side! I have never heard a three day rant from anyone on the other side.

But,that matters not at all. I have read the same excuses on this board about how the other side made them do it, How about accepting responsibility for you own actions? When I go after a poster that is lying, I know full well I did not have to do that. I wanted to and will contune to do so. But it is me doing just that. No one else. I know what I am doing.

I hear a lot from the other side about personal responsibility. I see little acceptance of their own actions,except for a couple.
 
Yes, it's clear Pogue is a conservative who likes big boobs.

Wow, you really showed him, didn't you???

Oh and "new" poster????

ROFLMAO!!!!

Your avatar and the rude comment to a new poster is making it clear to the new person what he is dealing with. Thanks
 
Yes, it's clear Pogue is a conservative who likes big boobs.

Wow, you really showed him, didn't you???

Oh and "new" poster????

ROFLMAO!!!!

So you like the avatar? In most cases littlle men who have a problem like to look. Just like Rush!
 
MaryAnne, it appears you would be shocked to find out how many men like looking at big boobs. ;)

Stan,I am too old, been around long enough not to be shocked at anything. I just think it shows the childish mentality of men like Rush Limbaugh who go on day after day with something like this. A thing that is funny for a while soon becomes just an excuse for voyerism. There is nothing funny about it.

As one poster remarked about how many children read this site. Do not kid yourself they are not there.I am not a prude .It matters little to me, just shows the childishness of many posters on this board. If you like it,keep looking.
 
children should not be looking at sites like these...parents should monitor what the children are doing on their computers and cellphones, as well as at school..but as our place in world education stats continue to fall, it seems neither the parents not teachers are paying attention...
 
children should not be looking at sites like these...parents should monitor what the children are doing on their computers and cellphones, as well as at school..but as our place in world education stats continue to fall, it seems neither the parents not teachers are paying attention...

Children will look,no matter how their parents object.In my day it was little boys on the playground finding a book from someplace.I can still remember a group of boys giggling over a book when I was in the 6th grade.Everone know what they were giggeing over/ The girls were all shocked,trying to get close enough to get a peek. Nothing has changed,it is just more open.
 
I frankly don't care about the double standard, or the extent to which each side's pols and pundits holds its own less accountable, or some science of google counts and/or lexus-nexus searches. What is most troubling here is that regular folks (citizens, posters here, etc.) continue to offer cover in the form of diligent study of who is worse. That is nothing but noise. It dilutes the very specific and very real fact that there exists an ugly anti-woman rhetorical strain in our politics.

When we see it (or hear it), we should drop everything, press aside the fatty tissue of "hypocrisy charges" and "double-standards" and simply excise the rhetorical cancer by focusing on it. Not who said it, not which political side the speaker or writer is on, not tedious headcounts of misogynists throughout history. Hold the individual abuser accountable without dilution or diffusion of the incident itself.

Free speech is good. Accountability is good. Giving cover to or in any way mitigating the actions of those who practice this sort of hateful speech toward women is not. There is no sanctimony in accountability - so long as it is meted out for its own sake in earnest. In my view, there is no positive productive aim to comparing right versus left incidents. We should just focus on the current incident...every time. I have a wife and a young daughter. My concern is not headcounts and comparative incidents. My concern is that they are able to live in a country free of sexism, harassment, and dehumanizing objectification. If one makes an observation that such incidents occur at a ratio of, say, 7:3, how does this help us?

Declarations of victory on the basis of being less bad than the other guy are neither compelling nor edifying. There's no remedy there. I don't contest your claim that this occurs more on the right than the left. Neither do I acknowledge it. I simply think it's a counterproductive enterprise and serves to haze what should be a very black and white issue. What Limbaugh said is reprehensible. No man should say such things of a lady. Men should instead honor women. And when we disagree with them we should do our best to do so respectfully. By no means am I perfect in this (or any other) regard. But we need to stand up and make a clear-voiced rejection of this garbage...always...without any diluting "sidecar" observations or issues IMO. I wish all the charges of double-standard and hypocrisy would subside and we all would just work on practicing respect. My observation of some other guys trespass does nothing to make my conduct better.

Best to you, Arkady.
 
im curious, why is not ALL hateful speech regarded as, say "disgusting" instead of just hateful speech directed toward one gender? by just saying hateful words directed to wards females is disapproved, by omission, you approve of the use of similarly derogatory words directed towards males.
 
I don't know if your question was directed toward me or Arkady (my responses often misalign as well...doggone hybrid view utility on this board gives me fits).

My reponse to your question would be that you are correct that both are wrong and neither is ok. I will admit that I find men speaking of/to women in this way doubly repugnant (based more on my cultural upbringing that men should look out for and be good stewards of ladies' interests). Objectively, vile is vile irrespective of target. This completely disgusts me on a number of levels. That said, my discussion of preference for broccoli doesn't mean I hate carrots. ;-)
 
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