"A 'DAGGER' Through the Heart of the Middleclass"!

[fairsheet]

That's how McConnell (GOP, KY) described the EPA's new carbon-limiting regimes. Back in 1966, Henry Ford Jr. said, (he really did!) that mandating seatbelts in cars would be the END of the American auto industry. The historical record is chock-a-block with similar apocolyptic pronouncements as to all manner of new rules and regulations.

In any case, I expect the coal thing to go down the same way fisheries and logging did, here in the PNW. In the 70's Federal Judge Boldt affirmed the tribes' right to half the commercial harvest. That one was predicted to be the certain ruination of all we hold dear. But now....35 years later, the ONLY lasting impact appears to be the strongest and healthiest salmon resource in 100 years.

The same went down in the 80's as regards our ancient forests. The courts essentially took most all of the old growth that remained, off the harvesting table. That TOO was predicted to sound the deathknell for a significant swath of our state. And now...25 years later, the only lasting impact is that we still have our ancient forests.

The coal producing states will get over these new rules in time, and when they do, they'll be much the better for it.

 

[trapdoor]

How many people lose their jobs, and how many communities collapse "in time?"

 

[fairsheet]

How many people lose their jobs, and how many communities collapse "in time?"

I highlighted two specific examples that are very well-documented. Feel free to research them if you're interested.

 

[trapdoor]

I highlighted two specific examples that are very well-documented. Feel free to research them if you're interested.

So you won't bother to answer the question. Can you tell me how many fisherman left their occupations back during the "mean time" after those conditions went into place? I had family who were loggers then, in that region. None of them were still loggers five years later.

 

[fairsheet]

So you won't bother to answer the question. Can you tell me how many fisherman left their occupations back during the "mean time" after those conditions went into place? I had family who were loggers then, in that region. None of them were still loggers five years later.

First of all, unless you're going to offer me a big-assed prize for convincing you of my gist, why would I bother?

Still...what's your point? I didn't even hint that these transitions caused no proximate pain. My point was that we eventually evolved beyond that pain and all that's left is the sunshine!

As to the fisherman, if those laws and rules hadn't been changed as they were, there would BE no more fishery by now. No...fishing jobs AND no more fish. The same is true of the ancient forests. There was only enough left for maybe 10 years worth of logging. So.....no jobs AND no ancient forests! Hooray! In terms of the logging industry though, the impact was limited to those loggers, mills, and communities that specialized in old growth timber. Subsequently, most either "retired" or adapted themselves to the renewable forest resource.

 

[trapdoor]

First of all, unless you're going to offer me a big-assed prize for convincing you of my gist, why would I bother?

Still...what's your point? I didn't even hint that these transitions caused no proximate pain. My point was that we eventually evolved beyond that pain and all that's left is the sunshine!

To your first question, I thought that was the point of participating.
As for my point, the proximate pain (as you call it) is economic calamity for the people who experience it -- they do not come off better off after time. They lose their occupations and livelihoods. There's not much sunshine left for a 48 year old logger with no new occupation.

As to the fisherman, if those laws and rules hadn't been changed as they were, there would BE no more fishery by now. No...fishing jobs AND no more fish. The same is true of the ancient forests. There was only enough left for maybe 10 years worth of logging. So.....no jobs AND no ancient forests!

Well, I'd say some statements there are unproven, and others are simply not true (Old growth forest has been preserved in a number of places where logging isn't allowed at all, for example).

Hooray! In terms of the logging industry though, the impact was limited to those loggers, mills, and communities that specialized in old growth timber.

And the "hurray" spinoff was lost jobs, and the fact that you can't get decent lumber for construction any more (and you can't -- lumber today is junk compared to what it was when I was a kid, and that was frequently criticized as junk by my grandfather).

 

[Dawg]

That's how McConnell (GOP, KY) described the EPA's new carbon-limiting regimes. Back in 1966, Henry Ford Jr. said, (he really did!) that mandating seatbelts in cars would be the END of the American auto industry. The historical record is chock-a-block with similar apocolyptic pronouncements as to all manner of new rules and regulations.

In any case, I expect the coal thing to go down the same way fisheries and logging did, here in the PNW. In the 70's Federal Judge Boldt affirmed the tribes' right to half the commercial harvest. That one was predicted to be the certain ruination of all we hold dear. But now....35 years later, the ONLY lasting impact appears to be the strongest and healthiest salmon resource in 100 years.

The same went down in the 80's as regards our ancient forests. The courts essentially took most all of the old growth that remained, off the harvesting table. That TOO was predicted to sound the deathknell for a significant swath of our state. And now...25 years later, the only lasting impact is that we still have our ancient forests.

The coal producing states will get over these new rules in time, and when they do, they'll be much the better for it.

and middle-class will be back to using whale oil for light.........at least I have a spring house to keep my food cool.........evidently 'O' didn't like the improvements the R's were making in NC......

 

[Dawg]

I highlighted two specific examples that are very well-documented. Feel free to research them if you're interested.

fish and trees do not compare with Coal and Electricity...........

 

[fairsheet]

and middle-class will be back to using whale oil for light.........at least I have a spring house to keep my food cool.........evidently 'O' didn't like the improvements the R's were making in NC......

Now that you mention it.....what about the jobs of those dudes what used to hunt them whales? At least THEY'LL get their jobs back!

 

[Dawg]

Now that you mention it.....what about the jobs of those dudes what used to hunt them whales? At least THEY'LL get their jobs back!

it will be each man for himself.

 

[fairsheet]

it will be each man for himself.

Well, at least maybe our seatbelts'll give us some safety comfort.