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A question for hawks....

Boltlady

Governor
Since you seem to think that the wars that we have and those that you think we should go ahead and get into/start are good ideas or at least necessary, the question is simply, how do you propose we pay for them?


Cost of War
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Cost of War to the United States

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Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
$1,341,932,949,386
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Cost of War in Iraq
$804,368,250,558
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Cost of War in Afghanistan
$537,564,698,827


Since my Mac is not picking up the ongoing numbers I suggest that you click on the link. It's really cool.

http://costofwar.com/en/
 
how do you propose we pay for them?


Simple. Eliminate Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, and Public Schooling. Then draft everyone who is unemployed -- except, of course, Mitt Romney. He's still owed one more deferment to catch up with Dick Cheney.
 
Your posts suggest we are paying for Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, and Public Schooling.

We aren't paying for ANYTHING, virtually everything is being paid for with borrowed money.

Social Security has been broken by people who never paid in in the first place, ie, SSI and the multitude of disabilities that earn lifetime benefits.

Medicare may or may not be there for those that paid in, but, Medicaid funds 78% of births in this state, and those mommas and babydaddies certainly haven't paid in to anything to qualify them for this breeding subisidy.

Public schools speak for themselves, 78% of California 8th graders cannot pass a basic science test, for example.

Seems we are not getting much for all the trillions spent on social welfare either.

At least the wars got us the heads of Saddam Hussein and Osama, and many others to boot.

The other well intentioned programs you mention have all been hijacked by freeloaders, giving us what we have today, a nation in which 50% of the population pays no Federal Personal Income tax.

How long do you think THAT can go on?
 
I think we should draft all the obese, put them on treadmills generating green electricity until we wrest from their bodies the sustenance they greedily stole from millions of starving Third World babies.

I mean, who the Hell has the right to be fat, while millions starve?

No different from asking who has the right to be rich, while others aren't.
 
Simple. Eliminate Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, and Public Schooling. Then draft everyone who is unemployed -- except, of course, Mitt Romney. He's still owed one more deferment to catch up with Dick Cheney.

Eliminate Social Security? Evidently you don't realize that it's one of the only things that has kept untold numbers of elderly folks from starving to death. Right now of course it's part of the national debt that we can't pay because our erstwhile congress critters elected to take the money out of the fund and replace it with IOUs. If it had been left alone it would not be a cost.

Did you know that some 32 million people in this country cannot even read? They certainly would not be candidates for investments that would cover them in their old age. Then you have the people who are very intelligent and can read but have no business acumen whatsoever. You also have the folks who barely eked out a living during their child rearing years and had nothing extra to put aside. Those would possibly include the ones who have had every kind of medical or other tragedies that wiped them out during the years that they might have been able to prepare. Nobody gets rich off of Social Security but it surely saves a lot of lives.

Unemployment insurance should never be allowed to go for as long as it has been been, but it is a very necessary stepping stone for those who lose their jobs through no fault of their own. Much of the cost of it is borne by the corporation that the people had been working for. We saw that in my own business. Some years back we had an employee that qualified for unemployment. The rate that my company had to pay went way up for several years after that and we figured that we had pretty much covered whatever it was she collected.

As far as drafting everyone who is out of work, we do something similar now. There are an awful lot of people who go into the military because they can't get any other job.

Eliminate public schooling? I'd agree about eliminating a whole lot of the bureaucracy that goes with it, but if you eliminate it altogether you'd have a lot more than 32 million who are illiterate.

So do you think that we should keep giving so much of our money to foreign countries?

http://www.livescience.com/3211-14-percent-adults-read.html
 
I think we should draft all the obese, put them on treadmills generating green electricity until we wrest from their bodies the sustenance they greedily stole from millions of starving Third World babies.

I mean, who the Hell has the right to be fat, while millions starve?

No different from asking who has the right to be rich, while others aren't.

Not all obese people are created equally. Some simply eat too much but many simply eat the wrong things. The gov't isn't much help at all because of the things that they allow to be included in our food. Let me give you an example, but bear in mind that this is only one example of so many out there.

Thousands of food items include MSG. Sometimes it's added under different names, but it is monosodium glutamate. When a lab is doing experiments and needs some rats of normal weight and some that are fat, normal one's are fed MSG to make them fat. It has a lot of other effects on the body too, but causing weight gain is definitely one of them. People aren't told that because of the big money involved. Most all of your fast foods and even regular restaurant fare include it. That's not all though. Things like your soups, breads, tv dinners, canned foods, etc. People eat a lot of these things and think they're eating the 'right' things.

There are a lot of other things that can cause obesity too. It's really not fair to make blanket statements about them.
 
I am a Hawk.

I supported going in to Afghanistan (I honestly think that was something we HAD to do...in order to dig the Taliban, and Al-Qadea out. Now, however, the time is approachin when we need to leave, as such a region can NOT be "held.")

I supported going in to Iraq (In this, I admit I was wrong. For a variety of reasons, exposed by "hindsight..." That said, I, for one, feel that the world is a better place without the Husseins in it...)

I supported Obama's "Libyan" offensive. (HEY, our ALLIES even got involved. Funny how "concerned" they get for the A-Rabs, once it is THEIR OIL SUPPLY that is threatened...who woulda thunk it, eh?)

Now...can you tell me what "Wars I wish for America to get involved in," now????
 
My eyes were really opened to the foolishness of war when I started focusing on how unbelievably expensive it is. As I've pointed out before, every war involves an "opportunity cost." Its price-tag indirectly represents all the good we failed to do because we instead chose to spend that money on the war.

Just as a very short illustration, say you can save one American life for every $2 million of life-saving government spending (e.g., subsidized cancer screenings, child immunizations, and highway safety improvements), or regulations (e.g., OSHA rules to protect workers, pollution controls, product safety changes). That's a pretty realistic estimate (I can provide links if people doubt it). So, then, the fact we chose NOT to spend the money on those kinds of things, but instead to spend it on war, represents a loss of American lives. Using a $800 billion estimate for the cost, so far, of the Iraq war, that then represents 400,000 American lives that could have been saved, but weren't, because we instead chose to conquer Iraq.

Since it's hard to picture 400,000 people, instead picture Soldier Field, filled to capacity during a Chicago Bears game. Picture a small nuke going off at midfield, killing every person in the stadium. Now picture similar attacks happening at five other NFL stadiums on the same day. That hypothetical terrorist attack would be approximately as deadly for Americans as our decision to invade Iraq rather than spending that money on life-saving measures at home. Or, to put it in other terms, picture if a 9/11-magnitude attack had happened every single month following the actual 9/11, straight through to today. That's the kind of avoidable loss of American life we're talking about, associated with Bush's braindead invasion.

That's not to say that war is never the right idea. It just means that it must truly be a last resort, which the Iraq war certainly wasn't. It was a war of choice, supported by evil people and the morons whom they manipulated. And anyone who has really taken the time to understand the price-tag of that conflict knows it wasn't remotely worth it.
 
I opposed US involvement in Libya, but it's worth pointing out a key difference between that and Iraq. Libya was much more similar to, say, Yugoslavia, in that we weren't breaking the peace. There was no peace. There was a war going on either way. Our intervention just tilted the odds of who would prevail and how long and bloody it was likely to be. In each case, it likely saved a lot of lives for us to be involved. And, in each case, what was needed for us to tilt the balance was relatively minor, so it didn't result in a long, bloody occupation, nor did it hurt America's reputation around the world. That's why even though I'd have preferred us to stay out of Libya, I'll admit it was a gray-area call, as opposed to the monstrous error of getting into Iraq.

As a side note, even if I'd supported the intervention in Libya, I opposed how Obama did it, since I think he lacked Constitutional authority, and that he would have violated the War Powers Resolution by continuing our involvement past its deadline, even if it has granted him temporary authority (which it didn't). In situations like that, where we don't have any treaty obligation compelling involvement, and neither we nor any ally has been attacked, Congress, not the president, should make the decision of whether to get militarily involved.
 
I opposed the war in Afghanistan* and in Iraq.

I supported the US role in Libya.

*in Afghanistan 2001, I supported limited bombing and small US special op missions designed to eliminate key al-Qaeda facilities and personnel

Costs paid for by increased revenues and budget decisions.
 
Fair enough.

I am not in complete agreement with you, but, I certainly appreciate your consistency on this issue.

(LOL, even if I tend to consistenly be on the other side....)

I just wish that the vaunted "UN" was worth it's weight in puppy doo.

That body is good ONLY for the occasional "natural disaster" in the Third World. Other than that, it is a dinosaur that does very little actual good for the price it costs....
 
Why not make blanket statements about the fat, blanket statements about the successful are acceptable.

What's the difference.

Obesity and obesity related disorders are a threat to national security.

Most of our high school graduates are too fat to enter the military.

We couldn't even raise a lean, mean, wiry scrappy Army like we did in WWII, fat camp would have to precede boot camp, and their mommies might get upset too.

As for what the obese are allowed to eat, I am for MRE's for any obese food stamp recipient, instead of the current license to pig out the program has become.

If people are too ignorant to support themselves and eat right, then if they need assistance, that food assistance should be provided on an individual basis.
 
I don't write the UN off as completely as you. It has proven useful for a lot of things. It's just that it has a fundamental flaw. It can only be useful when there is unanimous agreement among the five veto-holders. That makes it quite useful in fighting pandemics and ironing out territorial waters disputes and other stuff where the interests of the big five either aren't involved, or where those interests are aligned. But it makes it useless whenever they diverge.

Unfortunately, just complaining about the UN accomplishes nothing. What we really need is reform.... and I'd start by reforming the veto system. But that's unlikely to happen, since those veto holders don't want to lose their power. Probably we won't get major reform until there's been a major failure -- the same way we didn't get a better version of the League of Nations until after WWII had demonstrated how useless the League was in that earlier form.

Here are some ideas for how to reform the UN, if I had the power. First, I'd have 15 votes on the Security Council -- one each for the seven biggest economies, and one each for the eight biggest populations, with countries that are on both lists (US, China, etc.) having two votes each. This membership would automatically change up every year to the extent needed. The Security Council as a whole would manage executive functions, and could veto acts of the legislature by majority vote. Thus, no individual nation would have a veto. However, using its close alliances, the US would still be able to block most things it didn't want, and push through most things it did what, since its two votes, plus one each for the UK, Germany, Japan, France, and Italy would give it a team of seven votes right off the bat, for most things, meaning only having to win over one other nation for a majority.

The legislature would be bicameral. One house would be filled by population, while the other had one-nation/one-rep. The one filled by population would have elections every six years, with people elected by popular vote.... let's say, one rep per every 20 million people. Big countries would effectively have lots of representatives, while small countries would need to pool populations with neighbors or allies to have even one representative. Any population blocked from holding free, open, and independently-monitored elections would have no representatives. This would force countries like China to choose between letting their people pick their own representatives or not getting a voice in that body. Laws would need to pass both houses and survive veto by the Security Council, but then would be legally binding on any country, with enforcement by universal tariff.

There would also be a world court, and lower district courts, modeled after what we have in the US, with justices serving for 10 years, chosen by the Security Council and ratified by one of the lower houses. Each country would be "taxed" to fund the UN in proportion to its GDP, but with some progressiveness, so that richer countries were taxed at a higher rate than poorer ones. Countries could also negotiate with the UN to provide personnel or land or resource concessions in lieu of currency.

That kind of UN could actually get things done. Power would be distributed roughly in proportion to real power in the world, but without the ability of single countries to block action. You wouldn't have the silliness of the UK having a Security Council seat while bigger economies (Germany, Japan, Brazil, Italy), and bigger countries (India, Indonesia) didn't. You wouldn't have the hypocrisy of countries being able to ignore resolutions indefinitely, without sanctions, simply because they were friends with a veto-holding country. It would be more democratic, too, and would give people who have little power within their home countries a voice outside of them. And it would encourage cross-border cooperation among smaller countries.
 
Well, those are really good ideas, actually.

I'm just not quite as keen on getting that close to a "one world Government."

No, not because of any "religious" reasons, simply because...I just do not think our species is prepared for it.

That said, I most DEFINATELY think we should "expand" the Security Council, and, perhaps, put in some of the measures you suggest.

INDIA, definately needs to be part of that. And I would add Japan, Germany, and Australia, as well...

(Although, I doubt the Russians and Chinese would want ANY of those nations. Certainly not without their own list which would include Iran....)

Plus...IF the Human Species can not gather to fight OBVIOUS acts of Genocide (Rawanda, The Darfur, etc.), even when the savages engaging in such have little connection to any "Great Powers," and, even if they do, have NOTHING to "offer" (Such as Syria does, to both Russia--Mediterranean ports and ally-- and Iran--Syria is Iran's murderous Client-state...)...then, well, I can't see how letting more Third Worlders have more authority will actually move us forward....
 
Since Dubya and Iraq....the American Right has been convinced by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh of something that has NEVER held true in the history of any nation-state...


that you can CUT taxes and fight a major war and be "fiscally responsible".
 
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