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A Second Special Counsel for Trump?

Arkady

President
Robert Mueller should keep his investigation narrow -- dealing with questions of Russian interference in our election and ties between members of the Trump campaign and Russia. To the extent various leads seem reasonably likely to lead to such topics (e.g., issues around the use of Trump gambling organizations and properties for money laundering by Russian organized crime), he should follow those leads. But he should resist the urge to use his mandate to delve into clearly unrelated crimes (or just embarrassing behavior) by Trump. The model to avoid is the ethics-free investigation run by Ken Starr, who was tasked into looking into a small 1977 real estate investment in Arkansas, and somehow wound up obsessed with a late 1990s blowjob in DC.

To avoid letting Mueller freelance that way, while still making sure that accusations of sexual assault and rape by Trump are properly looked into, one possibility would be to appoint a second Special Counsel with that narrow mandate. Each counsel would have his own narrow field of inquiry, with no opening for mission creep.

Trump has been accused of sexual misconduct by 16 different women. Note, none of them are situations like Lewinsky, where he hooked up with some junior person in his organization but both parties involved confirm it was consensual. Instead, we're talking about 16 allegations of predatory behavior -- sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape.

A quick run-down:

Ninni Laaksonen accused him of groping her butt in 2006 at a pageant.

Jessica Drake says he forced a kiss on her and solicited sex for money in 2006 at a golf event.

Karena Virginia says he groped her breast in 1998 at a golf tournament.

Cathy Heller said he forced a kiss on her in 1997 at one of his resorts.

Summer Zervos says he forced kisses on her, groped her breasts, and dry-humped her, in 2007 at a business meeting in Beverly Hills.

Kristin Anderson said he grabbed her pussy at a Manhattan night club in the early 90s.

Jessica Leeds said he grabbed her breast and put his hand under her skirt on a flight in the early 1980s.

Rachel Crooks says he forced a kiss on her in an elevator when she was working as a receptionist at one of his businesses in 2005.

Mindy McGillivray says he groped her at a concert in 2003.

Natasha Stoynoff says he forced a tongue kiss on her during an interview she was conducting of him in 2005.

Jennifer Murphy says he forced a kiss on her at a job interview in 2005.

Cassandra Searles says he groped her at a 2013 pageant and propositioned her for sex.

Jane Doe says he raped her in 1994 when she was 13 years old, and that he threatened to kill her and her family if she told anyone. Note, this accusation was made under oath, and is supported by a second woman's sworn testimony of having witnessed both the rape and the threat.

Taggart McDowell says he forced a mouth kiss on her at a pageant in 1997.

Jill Harth says he groped her under the table at a business meeting in 1993. Note, this one is also backed by sworn testimony.

Ivana Trump signed a sworn affidavit accusing him of raping her in 1989, when they were married. She has since back-pedaled (not retracting what she said happened during the incident, when she claims he forced sex on her, but no longer calling it rape).

Note the number of times the pattern of alleged behavior fits with the pattern of behavior he got caught bragging about on tape -- not being able to resist kissing beautiful women, and grabbing their pussies.

So, that's sixteen separate women, some with relative minor complaints (the forced kisses and propositioning), others with very serious claims up to and including child rape. In most cases it's just unsworn allegations, but in a few, the women swore to their version of events under pains of perjury. In all but one case it's a he-said/she-said situation, with no other witnesses (although arguably strengthened by fitting so neatly with Trump's own boasts). In that one case, though, there is a corroborating witness to alleged child rape.

Trump isn't competing with Cosby or Weinstein when it comes to sheer volume of accusations. But, at this point, he's left most of the other prominent names far behind him.
 
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Robert Mueller should keep his investigation narrow -- dealing with questions of Russian interference in our election and ties between members of the Trump campaign and Russia. To the extent various leads seem reasonably likely to lead to such topics (e.g., issues around the use of Trump gambling organizations and properties for money laundering by Russian organized crime), he should follow those leads. But he should resist the urge to use his mandate to delve into clearly unrelated crimes (or just embarrassing behavior) by Trump. The model to avoid is the ethics-free investigation run by Ken Starr, who was tasked into looking into a small 1977 real estate investment in Arkansas, and somehow wound up obsessed with a late 1990s blowjob in DC.

To avoid letting Mueller freelance that way, while still making sure that accusations of sexual assault and rape by Trump are properly looked into, one possibility would be to appoint a second Special Counsel with that narrow mandate. Each counsel would have his own narrow field of inquiry, with no opening for mission creep.

Trump has been accused of sexual misconduct by 16 different women. Note, none of them are situations like Lewinsky, where he hooked up with some junior person in his organization but both parties involved confirm it was consensual. Instead, we're talking about 16 allegations of predatory behavior -- sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape.

A quick run-down:

Ninni Laaksonen accused him of groping her butt in 2006 at a pageant.

Jessica Drake says he forced a kiss on her and solicited sex for money in 2006 at a golf event.

Karena Virginia says he groped her breast in 1998 at a golf tournament.

Cathy Heller said he forced a kiss on her in 1997 at one of his resorts.

Summer Zervos says he forced kisses on her, groped her breasts, and dry-humped her, in 2007 at a business meeting in Beverly Hills.

Kristin Anderson said he grabbed her pussy at a Manhattan night club in the early 90s.

Jessica Leeds said he grabbed her breast and put his hand under her skirt on a flight in the early 1980s.

Rachel Crooks says he forced a kiss on her in an elevator when she was working as a receptionist at one of his businesses in 2005.

Mindy McGillivray says he groped her at a concert in 2003.

Natasha Stoynoff says he forced a tongue kiss on her during an interview she was conducting of him in 2005.

Jennifer Murphy says he forced a kiss on her at a job interview in 2005.

Cassandra Searles says he groped her at a 2013 pageant and propositioned her for sex.

Jane Doe says he raped her in 1994 when she was 13 years old, and that he threatened to kill her and her family if she told anyone. Note, this accusation was made under oath, and is supported by a second woman's sworn testimony of having witnessed both the rape and the threat.

Taggart McDowell says he forced a mouth kiss on her at a pageant in 1997.

Jill Harth says he groped her under the table at a business meeting in 1993. Note, this one is also backed by sworn testimony.

Ivana Trump signed a sworn affidavit accusing him of raping her in 1989, when they were married. She has since back-pedaled (not retracting what she said happened during the incident, when she claims he forced sex on her, but no longer calling it rape).

Note the number of times the pattern of alleged behavior fits with the pattern of behavior he got caught bragging about on tape -- not being able to resist kissing beautiful women, and grabbing their pussies.

So, that's sixteen separate women, some with relative minor complaints (the forced kisses and propositioning), others with very serious claims up to and including child rape. In most cases it's just unsworn allegations, but in a few, the women swore to their version of events under pains of perjury. In all but one case it's a he-said/she-said situation, with no other witnesses (although arguably strengthened by fitting so neatly with Trump's own boasts). In that one case, though, there is a corroborating witness to alleged child rape.

Trump isn't competing with Cosby or Weinstein when it comes to sheer volume of accusations. But, at this point, he's left most of the other prominent names far behind him.

What difference does it make...

During the entire Bill Clinton episode the Democrats told the country repeatedly that character does not matter. Ironic you are finding out now that it still does matter, too bad you killed it.

You reap what you sow.
 
What difference does it make...

During the entire Bill Clinton episode the Democrats told the country repeatedly that character does not matter.

Which Democrats, specifically, said that? I don't recall that. In fact, I can recall some prominent liberals insisting it matters greatly. Where liberals and conservatives differed is in how to judge Clinton's character. Conservatives thought it was terrible, because he didn't serve the super-rich the way they'd like.... and they attempted to package that sentiment and attribute it instead to his sexual affairs. Liberals tended to think more in terms of how hard Clinton was working for the kinds of poor and middle class Americans who'd been neglected for years by the Republicans, and they saw that as a sign of strong character.

Anyway, what we're talking about with Trump isn't an accusation that he had a consensual affair with some junior staffer at the Trump Organization (which would be the equivalent of the Lewinsky matter that Republicans got themselves so worked up about). Instead, we're talking about 16 women who alleged non-consensual conduct by him. In some cases, that conduct was fairly minor (on par with what Paula Jones alleged). In other cases, the alleged conduct could hardly have been more serious: raping a child and then threatening her with death if she told. If you look at that charge and say "what difference does it make," then there's no saving you.
 
Which Democrats, specifically, said that? I don't recall that. In fact, I can recall some prominent liberals insisting it matters greatly. Where liberals and conservatives differed is in how to judge Clinton's character. Conservatives thought it was terrible, because he didn't serve the super-rich the way they'd like.... and they attempted to package that sentiment and attribute it instead to his sexual affairs. Liberals tended to think more in terms of how hard Clinton was working for the kinds of poor and middle class Americans who'd been neglected for years by the Republicans, and they saw that as a sign of strong character.

Anyway, what we're talking about with Trump isn't an accusation that he had a consensual affair with some junior staffer at the Trump Organization (which would be the equivalent of the Lewinsky matter that Republicans got themselves so worked up about). Instead, we're talking about 16 women who alleged non-consensual conduct by him. In some cases, that conduct was fairly minor (on par with what Paula Jones alleged). In other cases, the alleged conduct could hardly have been more serious: raping a child and then threatening her with death if she told. If you look at that charge and say "what difference does it make," then there's no saving you.

Please see previous post. Like I said, you decided character did not matter when the person in question was someone you agreed with.

Nobody puts the scum in scumbag like Democrats, can't get over losing an election, can't get Trump on Russia, so suddenly you resurrect "sex" as an issue and go after Trump ...once more into the breech moonbats .........................

Too bad in the 1990's you guys decided collectively that it did not matter.

Keep reaping.
 
Please see previous post. Like I said, you decided character did not matter when the person in question was someone you agreed with.

Nobody puts the scum in scumbag like Democrats, can't get over losing an election, can't get Trump on Russia, so suddenly you resurrect "sex" as an issue and go after Trump ...once more into the breech moonbats .........................

Too bad in the 1990's you guys decided collectively that it did not matter.

Keep reaping.

The issue is not "sex." It is violent crimes.
 
Robert Mueller should keep his investigation narrow -- dealing with questions of Russian interference in our election and ties between members of the Trump campaign and Russia. To the extent various leads seem reasonably likely to lead to such topics (e.g., issues around the use of Trump gambling organizations and properties for money laundering by Russian organized crime), he should follow those leads. But he should resist the urge to use his mandate to delve into clearly unrelated crimes (or just embarrassing behavior) by Trump. The model to avoid is the ethics-free investigation run by Ken Starr, who was tasked into looking into a small 1977 real estate investment in Arkansas, and somehow wound up obsessed with a late 1990s blowjob in DC.

To avoid letting Mueller freelance that way, while still making sure that accusations of sexual assault and rape by Trump are properly looked into, one possibility would be to appoint a second Special Counsel with that narrow mandate. Each counsel would have his own narrow field of inquiry, with no opening for mission creep.

Trump has been accused of sexual misconduct by 16 different women. Note, none of them are situations like Lewinsky, where he hooked up with some junior person in his organization but both parties involved confirm it was consensual. Instead, we're talking about 16 allegations of predatory behavior -- sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape.

A quick run-down:

Ninni Laaksonen accused him of groping her butt in 2006 at a pageant.

Jessica Drake says he forced a kiss on her and solicited sex for money in 2006 at a golf event.

Karena Virginia says he groped her breast in 1998 at a golf tournament.

Cathy Heller said he forced a kiss on her in 1997 at one of his resorts.

Summer Zervos says he forced kisses on her, groped her breasts, and dry-humped her, in 2007 at a business meeting in Beverly Hills.

Kristin Anderson said he grabbed her pussy at a Manhattan night club in the early 90s.

Jessica Leeds said he grabbed her breast and put his hand under her skirt on a flight in the early 1980s.

Rachel Crooks says he forced a kiss on her in an elevator when she was working as a receptionist at one of his businesses in 2005.

Mindy McGillivray says he groped her at a concert in 2003.

Natasha Stoynoff says he forced a tongue kiss on her during an interview she was conducting of him in 2005.

Jennifer Murphy says he forced a kiss on her at a job interview in 2005.

Cassandra Searles says he groped her at a 2013 pageant and propositioned her for sex.

Jane Doe says he raped her in 1994 when she was 13 years old, and that he threatened to kill her and her family if she told anyone. Note, this accusation was made under oath, and is supported by a second woman's sworn testimony of having witnessed both the rape and the threat.

Taggart McDowell says he forced a mouth kiss on her at a pageant in 1997.

Jill Harth says he groped her under the table at a business meeting in 1993. Note, this one is also backed by sworn testimony.

Ivana Trump signed a sworn affidavit accusing him of raping her in 1989, when they were married. She has since back-pedaled (not retracting what she said happened during the incident, when she claims he forced sex on her, but no longer calling it rape).

Note the number of times the pattern of alleged behavior fits with the pattern of behavior he got caught bragging about on tape -- not being able to resist kissing beautiful women, and grabbing their pussies.

So, that's sixteen separate women, some with relative minor complaints (the forced kisses and propositioning), others with very serious claims up to and including child rape. In most cases it's just unsworn allegations, but in a few, the women swore to their version of events under pains of perjury. In all but one case it's a he-said/she-said situation, with no other witnesses (although arguably strengthened by fitting so neatly with Trump's own boasts). In that one case, though, there is a corroborating witness to alleged child rape.

Trump isn't competing with Cosby or Weinstein when it comes to sheer volume of accusations. But, at this point, he's left most of the other prominent names far behind him.

As long as it does not take away from the catching this god damn traitor. I say all is fair game. But first and foremost the removal of a compromised individual from the highest office in the world is the only thing our system should be concerned about.
 
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The real problem is tRump is a repuke and they will never go against the Ronnie Ray Goon pledge of "never talk bad about another republican".
 
The issue is not "sex." It is violent crimes.
This issue of consent is one that conservatives really struggle with. They still think the issue here is that people are having sex that doesn't fit within the narrow procreative marital paradigm. Thus, they lump together Bill Clinton having a consensual affair with an adult coworker, and Donald Trump allegedly raping a 13-year-old child. But those things are oceans apart.

Granted, no everything alleged about Clinton was consensual. Broaddrick, despite swearing under oath it never happened, did accuse Clinton in the press of raping her. And Jones accused him of flashing her. Those are on par with what Trump is accused of. And Clinton was very thoroughly investigated for those things.
 
Robert Mueller should keep his investigation narrow -- dealing with questions of Russian interference in our election and ties between members of the Trump campaign and Russia. To the extent various leads seem reasonably likely to lead to such topics (e.g., issues around the use of Trump gambling organizations and properties for money laundering by Russian organized crime), he should follow those leads. But he should resist the urge to use his mandate to delve into clearly unrelated crimes (or just embarrassing behavior) by Trump. The model to avoid is the ethics-free investigation run by Ken Starr, who was tasked into looking into a small 1977 real estate investment in Arkansas, and somehow wound up obsessed with a late 1990s blowjob in DC.

To avoid letting Mueller freelance that way, while still making sure that accusations of sexual assault and rape by Trump are properly looked into, one possibility would be to appoint a second Special Counsel with that narrow mandate. Each counsel would have his own narrow field of inquiry, with no opening for mission creep.

Trump has been accused of sexual misconduct by 16 different women. Note, none of them are situations like Lewinsky, where he hooked up with some junior person in his organization but both parties involved confirm it was consensual. Instead, we're talking about 16 allegations of predatory behavior -- sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape.

A quick run-down:

Ninni Laaksonen accused him of groping her butt in 2006 at a pageant.

Jessica Drake says he forced a kiss on her and solicited sex for money in 2006 at a golf event.

Karena Virginia says he groped her breast in 1998 at a golf tournament.

Cathy Heller said he forced a kiss on her in 1997 at one of his resorts.

Summer Zervos says he forced kisses on her, groped her breasts, and dry-humped her, in 2007 at a business meeting in Beverly Hills.

Kristin Anderson said he grabbed her pussy at a Manhattan night club in the early 90s.

Jessica Leeds said he grabbed her breast and put his hand under her skirt on a flight in the early 1980s.

Rachel Crooks says he forced a kiss on her in an elevator when she was working as a receptionist at one of his businesses in 2005.

Mindy McGillivray says he groped her at a concert in 2003.

Natasha Stoynoff says he forced a tongue kiss on her during an interview she was conducting of him in 2005.

Jennifer Murphy says he forced a kiss on her at a job interview in 2005.

Cassandra Searles says he groped her at a 2013 pageant and propositioned her for sex.

Jane Doe says he raped her in 1994 when she was 13 years old, and that he threatened to kill her and her family if she told anyone. Note, this accusation was made under oath, and is supported by a second woman's sworn testimony of having witnessed both the rape and the threat.

Taggart McDowell says he forced a mouth kiss on her at a pageant in 1997.

Jill Harth says he groped her under the table at a business meeting in 1993. Note, this one is also backed by sworn testimony.

Ivana Trump signed a sworn affidavit accusing him of raping her in 1989, when they were married. She has since back-pedaled (not retracting what she said happened during the incident, when she claims he forced sex on her, but no longer calling it rape).

Note the number of times the pattern of alleged behavior fits with the pattern of behavior he got caught bragging about on tape -- not being able to resist kissing beautiful women, and grabbing their pussies.

So, that's sixteen separate women, some with relative minor complaints (the forced kisses and propositioning), others with very serious claims up to and including child rape. In most cases it's just unsworn allegations, but in a few, the women swore to their version of events under pains of perjury. In all but one case it's a he-said/she-said situation, with no other witnesses (although arguably strengthened by fitting so neatly with Trump's own boasts). In that one case, though, there is a corroborating witness to alleged child rape.

Trump isn't competing with Cosby or Weinstein when it comes to sheer volume of accusations. But, at this point, he's left most of the other prominent names far behind him.

And all because you lost
WAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAAAH!

Let's answer to your post:

What ever you say we should do to Bill Clinton is what we should do to D. Trump if proven to be true what you say about Trump...What say you?
 
This issue of consent is one that conservatives really struggle with. They still think the issue here is that people are having sex that doesn't fit within the narrow procreative marital paradigm. Thus, they lump together Bill Clinton having a consensual affair with an adult coworker, and Donald Trump allegedly raping a 13-year-old child. But those things are oceans apart.

Granted, no everything alleged about Clinton was consensual. Broaddrick, despite swearing under oath it never happened, did accuse Clinton in the press of raping her. And Jones accused him of flashing her. Those are on par with what Trump is accused of. And Clinton was very thoroughly investigated for those things.

This issue is you lost and now you want to destroy America and it's President by faking rapes. I say we make a new law that say if you accuse someone of rape and it's false, that you get a double sentence with no parole.

I would guess that you would shut up if you were risking jail time for faking rape.
 
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Not calling the cops for 10 hrs legal by Democrats
 
I would guess that you would shut up if you were risking jail time for faking rape.
If it was faked, then both women already ran that risk when they signed their names to sworn testimony saying that it happened. So, why did the alleged victim back off? True, one possibility is that she was lying and felt like there'd be more risk of being found out if it went to trial. Another possibility is that Trump really did threaten her life, and although she was willing to risk it when he was just a billionaire, the idea of the most powerful man in the world wanting her dead was too much for her to take.
 
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