Al Gore never won Florida

[JV-12]

or maybe he did.

My point is, everyone (the media and left) are so certain the Supreme Court stole the election from Gore and that is simply not true and a gross oversimplification of the facts. But we the public have accepted it as fact because that’s how the media wants it. Just like we have to accept as fact that Obama’s latest rendition of a birth certificate is unquestionably authentic. (like in this day and age such forgery is so implausible, or to attempt such a thing is so unthinkable by all the “honorable” forces in high places). Well since no one will examine it except WND.com and a host of unreported on experts, anyone who disagrees with that is considered a dunce. These are cheap victories that so many revel over.



http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1095

This lengthy analysis from 2002 has a lot to say that makes it clear, in NO Way can anyone say Al Gore won Florida. In addition, it makes clear no way Bush could be determined the winner either. There were far too many issues, controversies and court rulings for anyone to claim the ultimate answer. This article actually favors Gore as the winner if you read the whole link, but it is thorough and does quote these factual statements as well.

Bush Really Won. For the most part, the top headlines concentrated on the results of the partial recounts, pushing aside the more inclusive tallies: "Florida Recounts Would Have Favored Bush" (Washington Post); "Bush Still Had Votes to Win in a Recount, Study Finds"(L.A. Times); "Florida Recount Study: Bush Still Wins" (CNN.com); "Ballot Recount Supports Bush Win," (St. Petersburg Times); "Under the Two Most Likely Scenarios, Bush Won Recount" (Palm Beach Post). Other papers opted for a take-your-pick approach: "Florida Review Shows Narrowest Imaginable Margins with Bush Ahead in Some Categories, Gore Others" (AP); "Bush Wins, Gore Wins--Depends on How Ballots Are Added Up" (L.A. Times).

Supreme Court Vindicated. So said the main headlines in the Wall Street Journal ("In Election Review, Bush Wins Without Supreme Court Help") and the New York Times ("Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote"). "Contrary to what many partisans of former Vice President Al Gore have charged," the New York Times wrote, "the United States Supreme Court did not award an election to Mr. Bush that otherwise would have been won by Mr. Gore." The Times reiterating that point several times, even as it explained the global recounts under which Gore would have won. Stated the Wall Street Journal, "The Supreme Court didn't steal the presidential election."​

Skim the chronology of events from Nov – Dec and it is clear there were a hundred issues in play to be decided and it’s no wonder it was a mess and inconclusive.

http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/ARTICLES/pe2000timeline.php

 

[NCmusicman]

No maybe about it... the news media did 5 independent recounts and desperately wanted to find that Gore won.. but he didn't. What Gore did was try to get the military vote removed... which was brazen and proved that Democrats Are Evil.

 

[NightSwimmer]

No. He might have gotten the most votes, but he didn't win. The SCOTUS made sure of that -- in an opinion that they insisted should not set a legal precedence. At least they were honest enough to admit that they were cheating.

 

[JV-12]

No. He might have gotten the most votes, but he didn't win. The SCOTUS made sure of that -- in an opinion that they insisted should not set a legal precedence. At least they were honest enough to admit that they were cheating.

Apparently your media allies beg to differ with your certainty of what was the "proper" ruling.

 

[TomFitz]

Bush won Florida by a 5 to 4 vote.

 

[LeRoy_Was_Here]

Apparently your media allies beg to differ with your certainty of what was the "proper" ruling.

The SCOTUS ruling essentially said that ballots had more rights than people do. If you're OK with that, it means you attach very little value to people.

 

[LeRoy_Was_Here]

No maybe about it... the news media did 5 independent recounts and desperately wanted to find that Gore won.. but he didn't. What Gore did was try to get the military vote removed... which was brazen and proved that Democrats Are Evil.

In Palm Beach County, more than ten thousand Jewish voters were trying to vote for Al Gore, and had their votes counted for noted anti-Semite Pat Buchanan instead, due to a ballot that was illegal under Florida law. THAT was evil.

 

[JV-12]

Bush won Florida by a 5 to 4 vote.

Which is better than any reason giving the victory to Al Gore.

 

[JV-12]

The SCOTUS ruling essentially said that ballots had more rights than people do. If you're OK with that, it means you attach very little value to people.

And the Florida Supreme Court usurped the powers of the Kathleen Harris who by Florida law was supposed to be the final decision. So what?

 

[NightSwimmer]

Apparently your media allies beg to differ with your certainty of what was the "proper" ruling.

I don't have any "media allies". You're the one who scours right-wing nut-job websites looking for dingbat nonsense to post here. I'm speaking to what I personally witnessed back in 2000. You're attempting to rewrite history to coincide with your twisted, partisan worldview.

You can place your faith in whatever you choose to believe. I'll accept the facts as they present themselves, thank you. I have no inherent fear of reality.

 

[LeRoy_Was_Here]

And the Florida Supreme Court usurped the powers of the Kathleen Harris who by Florida law was supposed to be the final decision. So what?

The case ended up before the Florida Supreme Court because Kathleen Harris was engaged in numerous violations of Florida election law. No, she is not 'supreme' to the Supreme Court of the state. Perhaps you just don't understand the meaning of the word 'supreme'.

 

[amfh]

Oh, I think Al Gore would have likely received a few thousand votes had Katherine Harris not purged eligible voters from the roles, in cahoots with ChoicePoint and.....TEXAS.
----------
If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a “scrub list” of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. A close examination suggests thousands of voters may have lost their right to vote based on a flaw-ridden list that included purported “felons” provided by a private firm with tight Republican ties.

Early in the year, the company, ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to “scrub” from their list of voters. But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list — the state of Texas.

Florida officials moved to put those falsely accused by Texas back on voter rolls before the election. Nevertheless, the large number of errors uncovered in individual counties suggests that thousands of eligible voters may have been turned away at the polls.

 

[JV-12]

I don't have any "media allies". You're the one who scours right-wing nut-job websites looking for dingbat nonsense to post here. I'm speaking to what I personally witnessed back in 2000. You're attempting to rewrite history to coincide with your twisted, partisan worldview.

You can place your faith in whatever you choose to believe. I'll accept the facts as they present themselves, thank you. I have no inherent fear of reality.

It's your definition of reality which is usually what we are arguing about.

FYI, the two web sites I linked are anything but rightwing in any sense, and the article is from 2002, not a decades later rewriting of history. I did not expect you to read it, of course, I am just making the case many of things that the public is expected to accept as fact or proper is often a fabrication or agenda driven.

 

[JV-12]

Oh, I think Al Gore would have likely received a few thousand votes had Katherine Harris not purged eligible voters from the roles, in cahoots with ChoicePoint and.....TEXAS.
----------
If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a “scrub list” of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. A close examination suggests thousands of voters may have lost their right to vote based on a flaw-ridden list that included purported “felons” provided by a private firm with tight Republican ties.

Early in the year, the company, ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to “scrub” from their list of voters. But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list — the state of Texas.

Florida officials moved to put those falsely accused by Texas back on voter rolls before the election. Nevertheless, the large number of errors uncovered in individual counties suggests that thousands of eligible voters may have been turned away at the polls.

Well if it is as simple as that then I am perplexed why the major networks who couldn't wait for the polls to close to announce "Gore wins Florida!" did not realize and pursue what you so claim? Why the liberal media was so benign when everything else they do on a national level is the opposite of benign and fair?

 

[JV-12]

The case ended up before the Florida Supreme Court because Kathleen Harris was engaged in numerous violations of Florida election law. No, she is not 'supreme' to the Supreme Court of the state. Perhaps you just don't understand the meaning of the word 'supreme'.

Except when "Supreme" tops "florida supreme", then you have an issue apparently?

As I noted, there were many issues at stake, not just Kathleen Harris, and so to be certain you have the truth on your side is total speculation or assumption.

 

[NightSwimmer]

It's your definition of reality which is usually what we are arguing about.

There is but one objective reality. I don't own it, I'm merely willing to acknowledge it. You, on the other hand, have built your entire belief system around fantasy and idle speculation.

 

[JV-12]

There is but one objective reality. I don't own it, I'm merely willing to acknowledge it. You, on the other hand, have built your entire belief system around fantasy and idle speculation.

Either God exists or He does not. One of those two positions is reality. Best everyone figure that out for themselves sooner than later.

 

[Boca]

Noooooo....she certified the election results on the day she was required to by Florida Law....then it went to the courts. Election law violations is bullshit.

 

[ARMCX1]

You seem to be defensive about who won the FL 2000 election and it's only 12 years later.

According to two post election analyses, the conclusion was that if only the contested ballots were recounted, then Bush likely would have won. But if all the FL contested votes were recounted, then Gore likely would have won.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html

You even quote the study headline in your top post: Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote.

Still, the public regards FL 2000 as an example of how not to conduct an election, and one in which partisan forces warped the will of the voters. We see some of the very same things happening in FL in 2012 that contributed to the uncertainty and chaos 12 years ago.

 

[degsme]

or maybe he did.

My point is, everyone (the media and left) are so certain the Supreme Court stole the election from Gore and that is simply not true and a gross oversimplification of the facts. But we the public have accepted it as fact because that’s how the media wants it.

Um no its not really an oversimplification. Its a generalization but not an oversimplification.

Why? Because SCOTUS is empowered to issue rulings that promote maximal justice. And instead what the majority of the SCOTUS did was

• Reverse ALL of their own personal stated and enacted precedences when it came to deference to State's Rights
• Ignored the Constitutional proscription allowing States to select their EC representatives by any process the State Lege allowed
• Invoked the "equal Protection clause" WRT Voting rights in a manner that disenfranchised tens of thousands of voters
• Did so in a manner that favored the son of the man that either appointed them or oversaw their appointment process
• Issued a ruling SO FAR outside the norm that they themselves wrote into the ruling that it could not be used as precedent.

What you leave out in your selective citations is that

While the recounts requested by Gore would still have favoured GWB, those still were selective recounts, which SCOTUS ostensibly had a problem with. There was nothing that prevented the SCOTUS from ordering a statewide recount. A statewide recount would have satisfied everyone (except GWB) - and GWB would have lost.

So instead the SCOTUS installed a POTUS who

• Lost the popular vote
• Lost the eventual recount of Florida
• Polarized the nation in his one sided governance
• Discreditted the SCOTUS itself