All you need to know about Min wage in a graph
- Thread starter Spamature
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Spamature
President
On the bright side, considering you'll have to use the rest of your waking hours at a second job in order to feed and clothe yourself. You won't have to spend much time in it anyway.
happyatheist
Mayor
You can't shelter yourself on it in any of the 50 states in this country working 40hrs a week.
That's what room mates are for...
Spamature
President
Look at the downward progression in this country. We went from a single family breadwinner to the need for both parents working to maintain the family income. Now we are down to two jobs are needed to keep unmarried singles afloat. How far are we away from going back to child labor ? Although we were headed in that direction if Newt got his way.
Bo-4
Senator
NightSwimmer
Senator
It's part of a secret plan.
The more we become like Mexico...
The less likely the Mexicans will be to illegally emigrate. Pretty clever, huh?
The more we become like Mexico...
The less likely the Mexicans will be to illegally emigrate. Pretty clever, huh?
Spamature
President
A noble pursuit that OG.. Life under Willard Mittens:
Jokes on him. By the time he pulled his head out of that dumpster. Mitt had outsourced American dumpster diving opportunities to Asian.
Bo-4
Senator
This is their ultimate fantasy NS.. the aristocracy & the serfs..
It's part of a secret plan.
The more we become like Mexico...
The less likely the Mexicans will be to illegally emigrate. Pretty clever, huh?
Woolleybugger
Mayor
In 1974 when I got out of high school, the minimum wage was 1.64 an hour. I got a job as a clerk in a union grocery store making 2.34 an hour. For that I could pay my own car insurance, gasoline, rent, food and the occasional thai stick on special occasions. Rent was 110 a month I remember in downtown Santa Barbara, we had an old house, two bedroom. I drove an old Rambler American. No cell phone, no cable TV, no fancy clothes, no fancy dinners...but I survived and when I started making more money, it was a beautiful thing. That union job paid me 8-10 dollars an hour by 1978, that was big bucks back then. That same job now pays a little bit more but not much more...Some will say inflation ate away at my purchasing power but what really happened was that wages never kept up with the cost of living for the working man or woman. This is what happens when you value capital formation over labor. It's as old as the Empire of Rome baby...
And in regards to the cost of food back then...they paid us really good union wages yet a bag of groceries would run you at most 10 bucks a bag, 15 with steaks and beer. So if my union wages were so high, why did Mr. Rosenberg who owned the place and drove up once a week from Beverly Hills in his Yellow Rolls Royce keep the store going for 15 years? Because he still made out like a bandit even with paying us all good wages. He was not a greedy piece of shit either. That's the difference in a nutshell.
And in regards to the cost of food back then...they paid us really good union wages yet a bag of groceries would run you at most 10 bucks a bag, 15 with steaks and beer. So if my union wages were so high, why did Mr. Rosenberg who owned the place and drove up once a week from Beverly Hills in his Yellow Rolls Royce keep the store going for 15 years? Because he still made out like a bandit even with paying us all good wages. He was not a greedy piece of shit either. That's the difference in a nutshell.
happyatheist
Mayor
I don't know about that...I'd be curious to see how the minimum wage in 1981-83 compares to what it is now in buying power. I lived decently on minimum wage for 2 years back then. I obviously did not have a lot of money to spend frivolously, but I could pay my bills (rent, utilities), eat, put gas in the car and occasionally get something that I wanted. Of course, I did not have health insurance, but, back then, a lot of people didn't have health insurance. I also did not have a lot of frivolous items that people now consider necessary, but really aren't - the latest electronic gadget, the latest fashion item, the latest music, book, movie/concert tickets or what have you, and I certainly never took a vacation. But I was able to feed, house, clothe myself and get to and from my job without much difficulty.
It seems to me that a lot of people consider things that aren't actually necessary to be as high priority as the basics. They're not.
Minimum wage is meant to be what you need to cover the basics, and it is supposed to be an incentive to strive for something better if, indeed, you do wish to have more than the basics. It's not meant to provide a person with every modern convenience that they coud possibly wish for.
NightSwimmer
Senator
Minimum wage would cover basics back in the 60's and 70's. It's been all downhill since then. It obviously won't even pay the rent now -- much less utilities, food and transportation. Now, obviously, most folks shouldn't be attempting to live on minimum wage. The thing is, all wages have been drug down in proportion to the minimum wage. We simply don't value work anymore. That's why we have so many young folks relying on welfare of one sort or another.
Spamature
President
But that's the point. Now it doesn't even cover the basics. Sure a person can strive for more. But their striving does not eliminate the need for someone to do the job they do after they've moved on. It's like chasing away a rabid dog instead of putting him down. You only chase him away to someone else's neighborhood.
happyatheist
Mayor
Minimum wage isn't supposed to pay all the rent or feed a family. Minimum wage is supposed to allow a young, single person the opportunity to get started on their own - which usually means, with a room mate. (Although, I actually did live on my own for 6 months without any problem. I only got a room mate for the last 6 months of that lease because she needed to get away from her parents, so I invited her to shack up with me. Gave me a bit more spending power, even though she ended up having to leave because we couldn't stand living with each other.)
We don't value work anymore - not actual real WORK. What we value is all these high paying career titles that basically mean that someone is being paid a hefty paycheck to do pretty close to jack sh*t all day. And people don't even want to take a paying job, simply because it doesn't pay what they think it should. When welfare is more attractive that having an actual purpose and being productive, there is something seriously wrong with people that no amount or type of government is going to fix.
happyatheist
Mayor
I don't know that it doesn't cover the basics. What I consider basic is pretty damned basic - you pay your rent (rooming with one or more room mates if necessary), you pay for the utilities you need (not the ones that you don't actually need to live), you eat, and you get to and from your job. Those are pretty much the basics. If you can afford health insurance, fine, if you can't, there's always the emergency room.
That's what I would be interested in knowing. The fact that a person can't afford to pay the full rent for an average place or support a family on minimum wage doesn't mean that minimum wage doesn't cover the basics. As I said above, minimum wage was never meant to be a wage that a person is supposed to be able to live on in every stage of their life. It's meant to be the starting wage for people just starting out. Young, single people who are not responsible for a family, only for themselves.
Spamature
President
First of all your post highlights the fact that a person earning the minimum wage works a full work week. Yet they can't be an independent person. They have to be dependent on other people or gaming the system for things that are necessary like medical treatment.
Secondly its not really a starting point if the largest occupational groups in this country like retail and food serviceearn less than a living wage and in some cases a poverty wage. Because most people in these positions aren't just starting out. Normally their part of that family that needs the second or in some case a third income to make ends meet. This idea that it only affects people who are just starting out is from a bygone era.
