MaryAnne
Governor
Now, we hear the whole sad tale of lies.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-to-100000-deaths-confesses-all-7606236.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-to-100000-deaths-confesses-all-7606236.html
Curve Ball Exposes Lies.
- Thread starter MaryAnne
- Start date
StanH
Council Member
How do you know it's the "whole" tale? Oh and by the way:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
StanH
Council Member
Wrong MaryAnne, words always mean something. Furthermore, many of the people who said those things voted to go to war in Iraq.
Oh and I will take your failure to address my question about how do you know it's the whole tale is a concession that you really don't know.
Oh and I will take your failure to address my question about how do you know it's the whole tale is a concession that you really don't know.
Boca
Governor
Now that's right humorous MaryAnne....so....are ya thinkin mebbe that the UN ginned up resolution after resolution fer a decade fer no reason; and that the stockpiles of WMD known to exist since the Persian Gulf War didn't matter; and that all them Democrat high rollers StanH mentioned above weren't preppin us with their saber rattlin' for what would have been Gore's War; and that all the major intelligence agencies were fooled, jus cuz some Russian dude possibly made up a tale about a single mobile bio lab?
C'mon...tell us ya wuz jokin'...it really is funny ya know?
C'mon...tell us ya wuz jokin'...it really is funny ya know?
MaryAnne
Governor
Boca,Stan's post did not have one word about the Un in it. It was simply a list of what people in this Country have said through the years.
I am not joking, I am showing how you guys twist things.You start out with one thing, then make it up as you go along, just like Stan did in his far fetched imagining of what could have happened to that woman.
Don't make me repeat what I have said at least twice now.
Bo-4
Senator
Strawman alert.. Clinton (and the rest of them) didn't make any such decision, nor did any of the guys who voted for the war authorization act do so as a signal to do so, unless ALL other options failed. You didn't even let Hans finish the job.
Boca
Governor
Ahh....Bush's admission huh? Glad ya brought that up.
Given that was an ad libbed remark in a news conference by a fellow not so quick on his feet and no teleprompter, lemme properly finish his thoughts.
Now ya gotta admit that's not a major editorial change, in fact it doesn't change the gist of what he was sayin' at all.
But....it does bring into play General Georges Sada's book Saddam's Secrets.
Doesn't mean it's true, but it's every bit as good as the tale told by the Russian fellow yer sayin' blew the lid off.
All I'm askin of ya MaryAnne is an open mind and a willingnesss to put all the pieces of the puzzle together in a way that makes at least some sense.
Given that was an ad libbed remark in a news conference by a fellow not so quick on his feet and no teleprompter, lemme properly finish his thoughts.
Now ya gotta admit that's not a major editorial change, in fact it doesn't change the gist of what he was sayin' at all.
But....it does bring into play General Georges Sada's book Saddam's Secrets.
Doesn't mean it's true, but it's every bit as good as the tale told by the Russian fellow yer sayin' blew the lid off.
All I'm askin of ya MaryAnne is an open mind and a willingnesss to put all the pieces of the puzzle together in a way that makes at least some sense.
TomFitz
Mayor
You don''t get any credit for recycling this tired old collection of throwaway quotes once again.
They do not prove your case.'
In fact, by deliberately removing them from context (a common right wing ploy) distorts the reality of the times in question.
All of the 1998 quotes were taken from remarks made during the debate of the Iraq Liberation Act, which DOES NOT call for war in Iraq. It strenghtened sanctions, authorized air strikes, and put the American Enterprise Institue's favorite Iraqi, Ahmed Chalabi on the Pentagon Payroll (which was it's primarly purpose).
The Iraq Liberation Act was not Clinton's initiative. It was Gingrich's, and the GOP. Congress asked for, and was given very specific assurances that the Act was not an authorization to start a war.
Moreover, Iraq wasn't even discussed as an issue in the 2000 election.
These quotes are misleading on several accounts. First, out of context, they suggest a broad bi partisan support for war, which didn't' exit. They suggest a national interest in Iraq, which didn't exist, and they suggest that the many people who tossed out sabre rattling comments were well informed and ready to act, neither of which were true.
The 2002 quotes are all in response to the National Intelligence Estimate that Congress demanded and recieved prior to the vote on the Authorization to Use Military Force. We know now, from subsequent investigations and testimony that that estimate was doctored by poltical operatives in the Pentagon and the White House to make the threat of WMD's in Iraq appear more real than it was, and to highlight and promote claims by various fringe groups (including the Curveball story),. that were in fact highly suspect, bogus or at least questionable (in the end, none of them turned out to be true).
Mr Bush's case for war sounded fishy from teh very start to anyone who paid the slightest attention to internatianal politics in the two decades before the US started the war. Outside the US, claims like Curveball's were discredited in the press within days, and sometimes (as in Colin Powell's UN speech), within hours.
The US media generally megaphoned these fake claims with little critical analysis, and right wing media promoted and exaggerated them.
You were sold a bill of goods by people who knew that they were selling you lies, and you bought it.
You're still trying to pretend otherwise, and it isn't working.
They do not prove your case.'
In fact, by deliberately removing them from context (a common right wing ploy) distorts the reality of the times in question.
All of the 1998 quotes were taken from remarks made during the debate of the Iraq Liberation Act, which DOES NOT call for war in Iraq. It strenghtened sanctions, authorized air strikes, and put the American Enterprise Institue's favorite Iraqi, Ahmed Chalabi on the Pentagon Payroll (which was it's primarly purpose).
The Iraq Liberation Act was not Clinton's initiative. It was Gingrich's, and the GOP. Congress asked for, and was given very specific assurances that the Act was not an authorization to start a war.
Moreover, Iraq wasn't even discussed as an issue in the 2000 election.
These quotes are misleading on several accounts. First, out of context, they suggest a broad bi partisan support for war, which didn't' exit. They suggest a national interest in Iraq, which didn't exist, and they suggest that the many people who tossed out sabre rattling comments were well informed and ready to act, neither of which were true.
The 2002 quotes are all in response to the National Intelligence Estimate that Congress demanded and recieved prior to the vote on the Authorization to Use Military Force. We know now, from subsequent investigations and testimony that that estimate was doctored by poltical operatives in the Pentagon and the White House to make the threat of WMD's in Iraq appear more real than it was, and to highlight and promote claims by various fringe groups (including the Curveball story),. that were in fact highly suspect, bogus or at least questionable (in the end, none of them turned out to be true).
Mr Bush's case for war sounded fishy from teh very start to anyone who paid the slightest attention to internatianal politics in the two decades before the US started the war. Outside the US, claims like Curveball's were discredited in the press within days, and sometimes (as in Colin Powell's UN speech), within hours.
The US media generally megaphoned these fake claims with little critical analysis, and right wing media promoted and exaggerated them.
You were sold a bill of goods by people who knew that they were selling you lies, and you bought it.
You're still trying to pretend otherwise, and it isn't working.
Old Ridge Runner
Mayor
Q: When is saber rattling not saber Rattling?
A: When it is done by the left.
A: When it is done by the left.
StanH
Council Member
Bo-4
Senator
TomFitz
Mayor
Yes they can.
And the ones who actually do know that this collection of out of context statements has repeatedly been used by conservative apolotists for their failed policy to demonstrate that there was some bi partisan groundswell for starting a war in Iraq before Bush started beating the war drums. It has also been used out of context to falsely paint a picture of broad bi partisan consensus (the vote belies that lie).
Finally, not one of these quotes that "you can read" changes the fact that the Bush administration deliberately exaggerated its claims, and deliberatly used claims that it knew were false to sell his war.
And they don't change the fact that the Iraq war was a Bush adminstration initiative.
Those of us who DO read, know that.
Those of you who hide from the fact and cling to these parsed out of context quotes claim not to.
