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Gun control

Boltlady

Boltlady

Governor
If the shootings in Aurora weren't such a sad subject you could have a lot of fun with this one!

We've seen the wild looks of James Holmes, the shooter, and everybody has been trying to outguess his motive and what kind of drug he might have been on. One thing that is for sure is that the timing was great for the folks who are trying to push gun control. It happened just a few days after the UN announced that it was going to try for world wide gun control.

Well it seems that there has been a substance around for a lot of years that would have accomplished the whole scenario. It's a drug called scopolomine that comes naturally from a Borrachero Tree in Columbia. Seems the things grow almost wild all over the place down there.

If a person is given the drug, they become zombie like for several days, will do whatever they are directed to do however much it might go against their normal will (unlike hypnosis), and they have no memory whatsoever of what they've done. Holmes could have had a handler of some sort that could have been giving him the drug for some time to have him order all of the firepower and whatever to build up to the actual act (or could have been doing the ordering). The drug is easily given to somebody because it is tasteless and odorless.

OK, I fully understand that this sounds way out there, but if you read about this drug you'll see how much of a possibility this is. There could well be some unscrupulous group that would stand to benefit greatly from gun control.

Before you make too many comments about me being completely nuts, read the following article about this drug, feel free to look up as many sources on it as your little heart desires, then see if it might be the very thing that would fit the bill.

http://biopsychiatry.com/scopolamine/borrachero.html
 
Could be. Believe me I have nothing good to say about him but his psychiatrist has had some pretty wild things said about her yet they have not been verified yet as far as I know.

Where countries in Europe have fewer deaths from guns and the police rarely carry them, I wonder why we can't allow one pistol to protect yourself in your home but do we really need the rest.

Some countries in Europe have had 68 deaths a year from gun shots and some have 70, while we have close to 11,222 and if you count the gun deaths from suicide, you could double that figure.

You always hear it's not the gun, it's the person or they will find another way, yet certainly getting rid of some of these guns has to help.
 
I might add that when you think how long ago the second amendment was written, I'm sure if our Founding Fathers were alive today, they would not expect guns that are around today to be used by so many.

The guns then took forever to load and so different then. Things change!
 
Join NCM and Wackybaccy and put your tinfoil helmet back on, the three of you are drooling all over the floor....
 
Seriously BL, there was no point reading past the UN remark, but let's get this straight.

There are no drugs that turn people into zombies. Scopolamine is a useful drug for treating motion sickness. At high doses, it does have psychological effects, but they reportedly aren't pleasant and the drug is rarely used for recreational purposes. There are a number of drugs that can bring a person to the brink of (or beyond) losing consciousness when administered in overdose.

If you fully understand that this story sounds "way out there", then why can't you simply accept the fact that it actually is?
 
I know someone who took a taste of those big tropical elephant ear plants. Talk about big mistake. I wonder what would happen if you made an apple pie infused with that stuff, mailed it to someone, and put like a pink heart with a love message on it. :)

Breivik's guns were all bought on the black market I hear.


Just saying. And some people think I'm dangerous. He he he.
 
This is what I eluded to in my first post, she could have been experimenting with him??

Update: Holmes' psychiatrist, Lynne Fenton, was reprimanded by the Colorado Board of Medical Examiners, in 2005, for prescribing drugs to several patients, including herself, without entering the information in patient records. She could now find a target painted on her back, as the drug companies try to make her a patsy, an "irresponsible and incompetent doctor who didn't give Mr. Holmes what he truly needed." They would do this to take the drugs off the hook. "In the hands of a good psychiatrist, the proper medications would have worked well." Who knows? Maybe they'll claim she didn't even treat Holmes directly, but supervised interns or grad students, who actually worked with Holmes.

I wrote the following as part of a 1999 white paper for The Truth Seeker Foundation, in the wake of the Columbine massacre. So the information is from that period. The white paper was titled: WHY DID THEY DO IT? THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ACROSS AMERICA.

It's quite long; I've only printed an excerpt here. You can go to my blog and read the whole thing. It's very relevant to the issues at hand.

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com

The bulk of American media is afraid to go after psychiatric drugs as a cause of violence. This fear stems, in part, from the sure knowledge that expert attack dogs are waiting in the wings, funded by big-time pharmaceutical companies.

There are doctors and researchers as well who have seen a dark truth about these drugs in the journals, but are afraid to stand up and speak out. After all, the medical culture punishes no one as severely as its own defectors.

And what of the federal government itself? The FDA licenses every drug released for public use and certifies that it is safe and effective. If a real tornado started at the public level, if the mothers of the young killers and young victims began to see a terrible knowledge about the psychiatric drugs swim into view, a knowledge they hadn't imagined, and if THEY joined forces, the earth would shake.
 
Lilly

It's only recently that some of the devastating effects of psychotropic drugs is coming to light. People really have no idea of the extent of problems that so many of the drugs that are duly prescribed cause. I read a piece just yesterday that said that people are 6200% more likely to die from prescription drugs than they are from a wild shooter. That actually ties in with the AMA's own figures that state that some 125,000 people die each year from prescription and over the counter drugs and another 2.1 million are injured by same.

People also have no idea of how many really devious and dangerous groups there are out there. Personally I believe that this could well be a part of the MKUltra experiments that I'm quite sure are ongoing. The plant that I referenced is too perfect a tool for interrogation and control to have just been dropped. Some of these groups have no compunction about claiming a few innocent victims to achieve their nefarious goals. The one thing that they all seem to do is to try and focus our attention on one guy at a time when in reality it takes a team to pull off whatever they're pulling off. For some reason people have not caught on to the fact that in virtually every major violent happening, it's always one person that we're supposed to hate at a time. It's been happening all through history.

There were witnesses that stated that the gas canisters came from two different directions. There was gear found in the car that could have outfitted another person. The media doesn't follow that line at all.

BTW, yes I read the link that you provided and yes I agree and liked it. I simply don't sign up for much.
 
NightSwimmer said:
Seriously BL, there was no point reading past the UN remark, but let's get this straight.

There are no drugs that turn people into zombies. Scopolamine is a useful drug for treating motion sickness. At high doses, it does have psychological effects, but they reportedly aren't pleasant and the drug is rarely used for recreational purposes. There are a number of drugs that can bring a person to the brink of (or beyond) losing consciousness when administered in overdose.

If you fully understand that this story sounds "way out there", then why can't you simply accept the fact that it actually is?
Click to expand...

This post of yours is a classic example of someone who is content with some knowledge on a subject but refuses to explore further. The reality is that many of the drugs in use today are derived from poisons. In fact if you have an operation the anesthesia is a 'controlled poisoning'. Everything depends on degree.

If you had bothered to read the information that I provided you would see how compliant this drug can make a person. When someone is given the 'date-rape' drug they don't remember what happened but that memory can be recalled through hypnosis. With this drug that cannot happen because the 'memory' is never registered in the brain. This is not a case where a lot of reports simply repeat the 'information' from one. There is a very diverse amount of sources out there that do explain what all this drug can do.

Yes I understand that there are some truths out there that we don't want to accept or know, and it's a lot more fun and easier to relegate the information to something being off the wall, but if people try to pretend that some of this doesn't exist it's a lot harder to change it.
 
I didn't sign but left the link so one could see what he is doing now.

Just look at the problems with Prozac and (Ritalin for children) and they are the mild ones.

I think NS could very well be right about the connection with the World Wide Gun Control issue but I also think we should keep an open mind in reference to how they can change a person and their miss use.

Of course I'm aware, it could be a ploy by the defense, yet now that I see this Dr. has been hiding things, I want to keep an open mind to all possibilities.
 
The CIA and others have been experimenting with all sorts of nasty drugs for forever ............LSD anyone ?

I have read some of the theories of him not being the shooter or that he was 'mind controled' .................. I think it is too early to form any real judgements about it or him ....so far it is a tragedy and he is weird ?

Nothing else to say really :) xxxx
 
Here's the dark truth. Human beings are capable of horrific behavior. I understand that certain drugs can alter our states of being in a variety of ways, but I find it an oversimplification to always infer that drug use was the primary causative effect whenever a violent person commits a violent crime while taking a drug. The problem with fostering this line of thinking as "common sense" is that it leads people to believe that if we could only eliminate access to certain drugs, we could thereby end all human violence. It is an attempt to transfer the malevolence from the person to the drug. I don't buy in to that theory. A helluva lot of people have taken LSD and never committed an act of violence. Coincidentally, a lot of violent [Unwelcome language removed] like Charles Manson happened to take LSD.

We wind up with too much nonsense legislation on the books because of the emotional public reaction to specific random acts of violence that achieve celebrity status in society. Meanwhile, thousands of other acts of violence go unnoticed.

Would that we were more circumspect in our desire for more governance. I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes for government services, but I want them to serve a useful purpose and I want them to function efficiently --and I don't really want a Big Brother making my every choice in life for me. We need certain laws and regulations for our society to function in a civilized manner, but that doesn't mean that we need a new law written to address every incident that makes the Evening News.
 
Queen Titania said:
The CIA and others have been experimenting with all sorts of nasty drugs for forever ............LSD anyone ?

I have read some of the theories of him not being the shooter or that he was 'mind controled' .................. I think it is too early to form any real judgements about it or him ....so far it is a tragedy and he is weird ?

Nothing else to say really :) xxxx
Click to expand...

Queen, until recently I had never heard of this drug but it seems that it's been known about for a lot of years. When you really read about it you can see where it would absolutely be used by some groups. If too much is given the person can die, but it wouldn't be given by groups who would care.

People do not like to admit or even accept that these things go on, but they do. Just because we personally cannot relate to the sort who would go to such lengths to achieve their ends, doesn't mean that they aren't out there and active.

To me, one of the 'tells' is the fact that witnesses absolutely claimed that those gas canisters came from two different directions and yet almost nothing is said about that. As usual, we're being given one person to blame. Whenever that happens I get very suspicious.
 
NightSwimmer said:
Here's the dark truth. Human beings are capable of horrific behavior. I understand that certain drugs can alter our states of being in a variety of ways, but I find it an oversimplification to always infer that drug use was the primary causative effect whenever a violent person commits a violent crime while taking a drug. The problem with fostering this line of thinking as "common sense" is that it leads people to believe that if we could only eliminate access to certain drugs, we could thereby end all human violence. It is an attempt to transfer the malevolence from the person to the drug. I don't buy in to that theory. A helluva lot of people have taken LSD and never committed an act of violence. Coincidentally, a lot of violent <img src=images/smilies/animated/censored.gif>s like Charles Manson happened to take LSD.

We wind up with too much nonsense legislation on the books because of the emotional public reaction to specific random acts of violence that achieve celebrity status in society. Meanwhile, thousands of other acts of violence go unnoticed.

Would that we were more circumspect in our desire for more governance. I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes for government services, but I want them to serve a useful purpose and I want them to function efficiently --and I don't really want a Big Brother making my every choice in life for me. We need certain laws and regulations for our society to function in a civilized manner, but that doesn't mean that we need a new law written to address every incident that makes the Evening News.
Click to expand...

NS, I agree with much of what you just said, but the undertone still suggests that you think that if it were true it would mean that the guy took the drug on purpose. I contend that a person could be given the drug unknowingly as many cases have been outlined throughout the many articles about it, because it is colorless and tasteless. It could so easily be added to their food or drink. It wouldn't even have to be a one time shot. It could be given over a period of time in different amounts and the subject would have no idea that it was happening. It would take a specialized group to understand how best to use it for their purposes, but those groups are out there.

The fact is that there are a lot of black ops groups that laws don't affect anyway. I too get really fed up with Big Brother, and it seems to be getting worse instead of better.
 
Boltlady,

I understand that real conspiracies actually do take place. When they are successful -- we never learn about them, do we? That is a problem. I agree.

Conspiracy theories are fine mental exercises, so long as one doesn't take them too seriously.
 
NightSwimmer said:
You get suspicious? ;)
Click to expand...

Well yeah. Contrary to what you might think, I'm not suspicious of everything. When I am though I do tend to verbalize it which may make it seem like I am. At least I allow for things like that to happen instead of just writing it all off as not plausible.
 
Boltlady said:
Well yeah. Contrary to what you might think, I'm not suspicious of everything. When I am though I do tend to verbalize it which may make it seem like I am. At least I allow for things like that to happen instead of just writing it all off as not plausible.
Click to expand...

Well, please relax for a moment and enjoy a nice Saturday, Boltlady. :)
 
NightSwimmer said:
Boltlady,

I understand that real conspiracies actually do take place. When they are successful -- we never learn about them, do we? That is a problem. I agree.

Conspiracy theories are fine mental exercises, so long as one doesn't take them too seriously.
Click to expand...

Well, we do learn about some of them, but if people don't take them seriously they choose not to believe what they don't want to believe. That's fine until they bite you in the a$$.
 
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