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here is the thing

You can’t enforce an “international norm” on your own recognizances. There has to be some kind of internationally recognized process, and some kind of authorization. That is what puts the “collective” in collective security. Since the creation of the United Nations, the only legitimate justification for the unilateral use of force is self-defense. Nobody alleges that a strike against Syria is an act in self-defense.

Nobody is even seriously defending it under “responsibility-to-protect” which was the justification for the Libyan intervention (and the Kosovo war before that). RTP extends the concept of self-defense to the defense of others. It’s a highly suspect doctrine with obvious potential for abuse – potential that was very arguably realized in the Libyan case. But even this expansive mandate for intervention doesn’t apply to Syria, where we are not proposing to protect the rebels but to punish the Syrian government for its reported use of chemical weapons against civilians.

If we launch an attack on Syria, it will not be under any legal warrant whatsoever. But the entire public justification for an attack is the to punish Syria for a crime of war – that is to say, the justification is the need to uphold international law. In other words, an attack would be an open declaration that the United States arrogates to itself the right to determine what the law is, who has violated it, what punishment they deserve, and to take whatever action is necessary to see it carried out.
http://www.theamericanconservative....beral-internationalist-case-for-war-in-syria/
 
this is a mess. we need to bitch slap Bashar Hafez al-Assad for his actions, but in a way other than using military might. I have no ideas.
 
the only way to do this is if international community -UN, will apporve the mission.
WE CAN NOT JUST assume the function of a policeman and judge at the same time
 
this is a mess. we need to bitch slap Bashar Hafez al-Assad for his actions, but in a way other than using military might. I have no ideas.

...the people of Syria will ultimately prevail - civil wars are awful, terrible horrific things - unless ass-ad is not human he will eventually expire, be overthrown and be replaced. In the meantime, we need to stay out...
 
...the "process"pf is letting the people of Syria to figure out how to depose this despot...

...no one says this process will be easy, painless and without sacrifice...

it appear to me that they are not having a good run at that.
 
it appear to me that they are not having a good run at that.
well, may it will take them 70 years like Soviets? They already have a few decades under the belt. Nobody was bombimg USSR, there were some other actions, mostly economical and political, even though without any chemical weapons Stalin destroyed millions
 
well, may it will take them 70 years like Soviets? They already have a few decades under the belt. Nobody was bombimg USSR, there were some other actions, mostly economical and political, even though without any chemical weapons Stalin destroyed millions

Some would say some undue influence remains.

Stalin killed tens of millions and no one gave a shit.

Are time different (in that we should give a shit)... or given the instantaneous nature of information and international policing and the like is it perhaps not too easy to turn a blind eye

or is it that they (Syria) don't rate high enough?
 
so it will not be 70 years, way sooner. But the air strikes accomplish little to nothing(without even mentioning legality), the changes you advocate for require the change of the regime- how? , or you think we should be the "Dirty Harry" on the world scene?
 
so it will not be 70 years, way sooner. But the air strikes accomplish little to nothing(without even mentioning legality), the changes you advocate for require the change of the regime- how? , or you think we should be the "Dirty Harry" on the world scene?

I think they might accomplish a deterrent effect as to using chem weapons (iff that is proven to bee the case)

nothing about regime change..
 
looks like Thursday is 'missiles away'.........evidently, again the Constitutional Professor will by-step THE CONSTITUTION and be King Decider.
 
I think they might accomplish a deterrent effect as to using chem weapons (iff that is proven to bee the case)

nothing about regime change..
or it could be -they can use more chemicals in spite.
If they are going down - they may like to do it with a loud bang. Possible?
 
the only way to do this is if international community -UN, will apporve the mission.
WE CAN NOT JUST assume the function of a policeman and judge at the same time


Thing is, both China and Russian will reflexively veto any intervention proposed via the UN. You know it. I know it. Bob Dole knows it.

The only way for the US to intervene militarily would be through NATO and their ties to Turkey. Such a move would also benefit from having support from other neighbor nations. I don't think the US will intervene militarily without at least an ad hoc collective on board. Nor do I believe that the US will commit to a ground war in Syria. What is much more likely to occur is a limited number of targeted strikes against known chemical weapons facilities, and that assumes the US has knowledge of such targets.
 
Thing is, both China and Russian will reflexively veto any intervention proposed via the UN. You know it. I know it. Bob Dole knows it.

The only way for the US to intervene militarily would be through NATO and their ties to Turkey. Such a move would also benefit from having support from other neighbor nations. I don't think the US will intervene militarily without at least an ad hoc collective on board. Nor do I believe that the US will commit to a ground war in Syria. What is much more likely to occur is a limited number of targeted strikes against known chemical weapons facilities, and that assumes the US has knowledge of such targets.
most likely it can be some type of Kosovo scenario
 
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