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If Trayvon had been jailed for his past activities, would he still be alive today?

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(Full disclosure: this is my final Zimmerman top post. Please note that I have posted previously- and often – that Zimmerman should have been found guilty of manslaughter, and received jail time. I have also sided with the judge and prosecution who correctly excluded Trayvon’s troubled past from being introduced into evidence. That said, let’s review what the jurors never heard about both Zimmerman and Trayvon, and see what common sense might tell us.)

Trayvon Martin’s criminal activities, while not admissible during the trial, suggest a troubled young man on a collision course with authority figures of all kinds. He was suspended from school twice for offenses which the school failed to report to police as required by law and would have resulted in court appearances. The first suspension was for possession of burglary tools and “dozens of items” of women’s jewelry. The second was for possession of marijuana and paraphernalia, also on school property. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130705151359AAqWO6u

In fact, Trayvon was in the middle of yet another – 2 week – school suspension on the very day he was shot. The school refuses to release any records on what triggered THAT suspension. However, analysis of social media from Trayvon’s relatives makes a strong case that this was a result of a violent attack by Trayvon on his own school bus driver. http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension

Trayvon was high on pot the night he had his altercation with Zimmerman, according to the medical examiner in the case. And the examiner was ready to testify that substance abuse – both that very evening and Trayvon’s chronic use prior – was probably a factor leading to his poor judgment, anti-social behavior, criminal activity, and repeated school suspensions. However, this testimony was not allowed in court. http://www.businessinsider.com/trayvon-martins-marijuana-use-2013-7

Zimmerman is no angel either. He has a speeding ticket (waaaay over the limit), which was only dismissed when the arresting officer failed to show up for court. He was charged with resisting arrest, but it’s not clear what the reason was for the arrest was because those charges were dropped, and Zimmerman pleaded to the sole count of resisting, and received probation. He and his wife both had mutual restraining orders at one point. As with Trayvon, nothing here that would normally result in incarceration. Zimmerman appears to have never used narcotics, as far as the records show
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For both of these individuals, these are the sorts of escapades that usually don’t result in jail time. Both Hispanic and black civil rights advocates would be correct to characterize incarceration under these circumstances as “disproportionate” compared to how a white offender would typically be handled.

That said, one can still reasonably ask – would Trayvon be alive today if his school had properly dealt with the various burglary, narcotics and school bus driver attack situations? Repeated suspensions were clearly not making any impression on Trayvon, who regarded them as a form of vacation, and was stoned on the night he was shot. His behavior was continuing to deteriorate because he didn’t regard consequences for his actions as meaningful or serious.

Conversely, should a concealed/carry handgun permit be granted to someone who has been charged with resisting arrest, and has been under a protection from spousal abuse order (albeit mutual) in his past? Zimmerman’s dream was to become an actual policeman. Is this realistic given his behavior? If someone been forthright enough to tell him “forget it – you’re never going to qualify because you don’t have the right attitude”, might he have moved on in his life rather than stoking his wild west deputy fantasies by carrying a weapon at night and patrolling a suburban neighborhood he regarded as “Dodge City”?

Again, I’m not saying either of these testosterone fueled morons should have been in jail on the night in question. But Trayvon should have had to appear before a judge for his crimes, and Zimmerman should never have had a gun. These outcomes would have greatly increased the probability that Trayvon would still be alive today.

I now submit myself to the opprobrium of "true believers" at both extremes of the spectrum. Have fun with this.
 
I'd say his odds would be much better had Zimmerman been jailed for his past activities. After all, he's the one who pulled the trigger. The jury didn't change that simple fact.
 
I'd say his odds would be much better had Zimmerman been jailed for his past activities. After all, he's the one who pulled the trigger. The jury didn't change that simple fact.

really, night? you think ALL people should be jailed for the things zimmerman did? or just hispanics, white or otherwise? be honest now. everyone is watching you . . .
 
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(Full disclosure: this is my final Zimmerman top post. Please note that I have posted previously- and often – that Zimmerman should have been found guilty of manslaughter, and received jail time. I have also sided with the judge and prosecution who correctly excluded Trayvon’s troubled past from being introduced into evidence. That said, let’s review what the jurors never heard about both Zimmerman and Trayvon, and see what common sense might tell us.)

Trayvon Martin’s criminal activities, while not admissible during the trial, suggest a troubled young man on a collision course with authority figures of all kinds. He was suspended from school twice for offenses which the school failed to report to police as required by law and would have resulted in court appearances. The first suspension was for possession of burglary tools and “dozens of items” of women’s jewelry. The second was for possession of marijuana and paraphernalia, also on school property. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130705151359AAqWO6u

In fact, Trayvon was in the middle of yet another – 2 week – school suspension on the very day he was shot. The school refuses to release any records on what triggered THAT suspension. However, analysis of social media from Trayvon’s relatives makes a strong case that this was a result of a violent attack by Trayvon on his own school bus driver. http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension

Trayvon was high on pot the night he had his altercation with Zimmerman, according to the medical examiner in the case. And the examiner was ready to testify that substance abuse – both that very evening and Trayvon’s chronic use prior – was probably a factor leading to his poor judgment, anti-social behavior, criminal activity, and repeated school suspensions. However, this testimony was not allowed in court. http://www.businessinsider.com/trayvon-martins-marijuana-use-2013-7

Zimmerman is no angel either. He has a speeding ticket (waaaay over the limit), which was only dismissed when the arresting officer failed to show up for court. He was charged with resisting arrest, but it’s not clear what the reason was for the arrest was because those charges were dropped, and Zimmerman pleaded to the sole count of resisting, and received probation. He and his wife both had mutual restraining orders at one point. As with Trayvon, nothing here that would normally result in incarceration. Zimmerman appears to have never used narcotics, as far as the records show
.
For both of these individuals, these are the sorts of escapades that usually don’t result in jail time. Both Hispanic and black civil rights advocates would be correct to characterize incarceration under these circumstances as “disproportionate” compared to how a white offender would typically be handled.

That said, one can still reasonably ask – would Trayvon be alive today if his school had properly dealt with the various burglary, narcotics and school bus driver attack situations? Repeated suspensions were clearly not making any impression on Trayvon, who regarded them as a form of vacation, and was stoned on the night he was shot. His behavior was continuing to deteriorate because he didn’t regard consequences for his actions as meaningful or serious.

Conversely, should a concealed/carry handgun permit be granted to someone who has been charged with resisting arrest, and has been under a protection from spousal abuse order (albeit mutual) in his past? Zimmerman’s dream was to become an actual policeman. Is this realistic given his behavior? If someone been forthright enough to tell him “forget it – you’re never going to qualify because you don’t have the right attitude”, might he have moved on in his life rather than stoking his wild west deputy fantasies by carrying a weapon at night and patrolling a suburban neighborhood he regarded as “Dodge City”?

Again, I’m not saying either of these testosterone fueled morons should have been in jail on the night in question. But Trayvon should have had to appear before a judge for his crimes, and Zimmerman should never have had a gun. These outcomes would have greatly increased the probability that Trayvon would still be alive today.

I now submit myself to the opprobrium of "true believers" at both extremes of the spectrum. Have fun with this.
Huh?! The much more obvious question is whether Martin would be alive today if Zimmerman had been jailed.

I suppose we'll never know what went down on that night, but your take on this is just plain weird. In Zimmerman, we have an armed adult with a past history of violent crime (assaulting a police officer) who shot and killed a child. In Martin, we have an unarmed kid with a past history of non-violent run-ins with authorities, who was shot and killed while walking home. And you want to know whether Martin would be alive if HE'D been jailed?! Isn't the obvious question whether Martin would be alive if the violent criminal Zimmerman had been jailed?
 
really, night? you think ALL people should be jailed for the things zimmerman did? or just hispanics, white or otherwise? be honest now. everyone is watching you . . .
Come on. Nothing he said implied he thinks people should be jailed for what he did. He's just pointing out that if you're going to speculate that Martin would be alive if he'd been jailed, it would make a whole lot more sense to start by speculating what would happen if Zimmerman were jailed, since he's the one who did the shooting.

Personally, I think we're FAR too quick to jail people, and based on the limited information I have, it sounds like the proper decision not to jail either. But if I had to make a call between jailing a child who had a few non-violent run ins with authorities, or an adult who physically assaulted a police officer, I'd go with the latter.

[note: added later -- I'm still looking into the claim that Martin assaulted a bus driver and the nature of Zimmerman's spousal issues, so I didn't comment on those -- I'm a johnny-come-lately on this story, so I'm not really up to speed on the facts]
 
Come on. Nothing he said implied he thinks people should be jailed for what he did. He's just pointing out that if you're going to speculate that Martin would be alive if he'd been jailed, it would make a whole lot more sense to start by speculating what would happen if Zimmerman were jailed, since he's the one who did the shooting.

Personally, I think we're FAR too quick to jail people, and based on the limited information I have, it sounds like the proper decision not to jail either. But if I had to make a call between jailing a child who had a few non-violent run ins with authorities, or an adult who physically assaulted a police officer, I'd go with the latter.

[note: added later -- I'm still looking into the claim that Martin assaulted a bus driver and the nature of Zimmerman's spousal issues, so I didn't comment on those -- I'm a johnny-come-lately on this story, so I'm not really up to speed on the facts]

ark - and night - i am so disappointed in both of you, and your (continuing) poor reading skills. i made it clear about a half dozen times in my top post that i DIDNT believe trayvon should have gone to jail. my issue was that he never even went to court.

if you're going to serve me up "easy wins" like this, why even come to the ballpark, boys? you should be ashamed - beaten by a girl, with one hand tied behind my back.
 
really, night? you think ALL people should be jailed for the things zimmerman did? or just hispanics, white or otherwise? be honest now. everyone is watching you . . .

You seem to think that all teens need to be jailed for what Trayvon was accused of. Or is that just black teens? Curious why you told the lie that Trayvon was high on pot. He had a very low trace amount in his system that wouldn't do what you suggested. Why that lie?
 
You seem to think that all teens need to be jailed for what Trayvon was accused of. Or is that just black teens? Curious why you told the lie that Trayvon was high on pot. He had a very low trace amount in his system that wouldn't do what you suggested. Why that lie?

actually, i said the exact opposite - MULTIPLE TIMES - in my top post. Why does it seem that only the left wingers in this thread are reading comprehension impaired, and others seem to get it?
 
Good Post ASOT.. very informative.

Interesting how these things are hidden by the media.. it certainly would be helpful to get all the dirt on both characters. Zimmerman's is front and center, Trayvon's is clearly surpressed.

I can't wait for this trial to go away.
 
actually, i said the exact opposite - MULTIPLE TIMES - in my top post. Why does it seem that only the left wingers in this thread are reading comprehension impaired, and others seem to get it?

You're cute. You throw out this idea that if only Trayvon had been jailed for all of his misdeeds he would have been cured of being a thug and when followed by Zimmerman he wouldn't have acted like a thug and would only run on home and been safe. In other words it was his fault he got shot because he was still a thug. Then you always throw out your "buts" to distance yourself from the idea you are throwing out there. Actually spending jail time is worse because he would be exposed to actual criminals and come out worse which happens many times. What about the lie about the pot?
 
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