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Moderate Catholics

For too long, the Catholic Church's stance on public issues has been defined by the outspokenness of its most conservative bishops and the reticence of moderate and progressive prelates. Signs that this might finally be changing are encouraging for the church, and for American politics.

that's just wishful thinking on Dionne's part.
 
For too long, the Catholic Church's stance on public issues has been defined by the outspokenness of its most conservative bishops and the reticence of moderate and progressive prelates. Signs that this might finally be changing are encouraging for the church, and for American politics.

that's just wishful thinking on Dionne's part.

Maybe they pushed too hard this time with the law suits that are so obvous..Moderates decided to speak up. I would like to hear comments from those who belong.
 
I belong.

I'll liken it to the GOP.....the bullying voices drown out the moderates. that's what's happening in the Church.
 
I love these rightwing Catholics...who get "very upset" about contraception, but are "cool" with the death penalty.
 
Yep, the sooner the Catholic hierarchy learns that the average Catholic is FAR more moderate than they are.. will be a happy day for the planet.
 
Perhaps some of the more moderate Bishops are aware that such partisan political activity places the Church in peril of losing it's tax exempt status?
 
Perhaps some of the more moderate Bishops are aware that such partisan political activity places the Church in peril of losing it's tax exempt status?

195 vs. 36 who filed? The modeates need to sound off.
With the Butler arrest because so many are fed up with the corruption in the Vatican,they are exposing it. All Catholics need to speak out. I do when I think my Minister pushes too hard on the Right Wing crap..
 
Yep, the sooner the Catholic hierarchy learns that the average Catholic is FAR more moderate than they are.. will be a happy day for the planet.

we Catholics used to say the Church was 50 years behind the faithful....now we can easily say 100 years.
 
MaryAnne, You're probably not going to like any of this.


Re: "Moderate Catholics" The Roman Catholic Church doesn't have sects that way. You either believe what the Church teaches or you don't. We have a term known as "Cafeteria Catholic", which means that some people pick and choose among which Church teaching they will accept and which they won't, the way you pick among things offered in a cafeteria.

Basically, Dionne's piece that you linked is a BS article wherein the author attempts to use the fact that a fraction of the dioceses will sue indicates dissention among bishops over the Church's opinion of Obama's mandate. It seems like the one bishop they cited* said he was concerned about how to keep faithful to the Gospel without allowing this fight to be construed as a political effort from the Church. He said 'some people" were trying to do just that and spin it into an "anti-Obama campaign" and the author chose to imply that "some people" meant "some bishops". The reality is that "some people" are the right leaning politicians and pundits. Dionne also obviously successfully implied (if you're top post is any indication) that there was dissention among Catholic bishops about contraceptive use and providing of contraceptives to employees of Catholic run ministries. That was false, too.

If the NYTimes can teach anyone anything, it's that it pays to investigate because some "journalists" don't bother anymore. particularly when it comes to the Catholic Church. The minute a journalist is writiing about what a clergyman said TO SOMEONE ELSE, the red flags go up. The journalist did not contact the source he or she bases "facts" on.
This is what I found.
The author of your article, Dionne, cites Bishop Clarke's remarks from an article in America Magazine. Sure enough, when I checked at America Magazine I found this.....a clarification by the bishop that Dionne cited BECAUSE authors like Dionne and others deliberately misrepresented his remarks. Dionne's "interpretation" of Clarke's remarks is mentioned specifically as part of the need the Bishop felt this clarification he asked America Magazine to print.

This is from the May 25 article....
"Bishop Blaire has issued a clarification of "some misunderstandings" based on his remarks to me on Tuesday (full text of the statement follows below). I've asked his press secretary if he wishes to speak specifically to comments or points made in the interview published here and will update if I hear back.

Reading his statement, however, I don't see much essentially changed from his remarks to me Tuesday morning. His comments generated a heavy speculative buzz in both the Catholic and secular media, and I presume his "clarification" is intended more toward how far columnists such as E.J. Dionne and Lisa Miller at the Washington Post and Michael Sean Winters at National Catholic Reporter carried his comments from the text that was published here.

As he told me, Blaire reiterates in his clarification that he supports the religious liberty campaign in general. He expands slightly on points made on Tuesday: "It is totally unacceptable to have the federal government decide that our religious ministries are not 'religious.' The continuing effort of the government to intrude itself by re-defining Catholic ministries as somehow less religious or less Catholic because they employ or serve those without regard to their creed is unjust and a violation of religious liberty. The government should not intrude itself in forcing the Church and her institutions to violate her long standing teaching to provide essential health care to her employees."

He adds: "I am convinced we need to continue to seek to persuade others to join us in this just cause through reasoned, civil and respectful discussion. Our defense of religious liberty is advanced when there is open discussion about the best strategies to promote our common goal." Again, pretty much what he told me, though he advocated a "wider consultation" among the bishops at the June meeting."



http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=5148


And this is the link to the original article that Dionne mutilated and twisted the living daylights out of. I think you may be disappointed.

http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=5138
 
Perhaps some of the more moderate Bishops are aware that such partisan political activity places the Church in peril of losing it's tax exempt status?

The Church won't lose her tax exempt status. That's just a stick some use to beat the Church with. The reality is that without having to mind some Ps and Qs to protect tax exempt status, the Church would be free to say anything anywhere, and speak specifically about the very people who threaten the status. And those people know it.
 
Gigi,I just read an article about a branch of my own Church where they are asking to remove their tax exempt status because he told his flock to vote out Obama.

You are naive if you think the different sections of the Church do not have different ideas.
The arrest of the Pope's Butler because many object to the corruption in the Vatican is just another example.

I am not upset because I have already said when I object to things my Pastor says I say so and he is right leaning. I voiced my opinion very loud when he made fun of the President. So did many others. Enough complaints and the board will handle it.

I live in the real world where I deal with facts, not a fairy tale that everything is perfect. Man will never be perfect and they run the Churches. To refuse to see that is harmful to those who refuse. Not to look at both sides is wrong.
 
E. J. Dionne is a good Catholic with the credibility to critique the actions of the Catholic Bishops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._J._Dionne


Julie, I'm not going to discuss his life or qualifications. I just know that in this instance, he either lied, or he had real trouble comprehending the article he used as the basis for his opinion. It has to be one or the other, because both the article he cited, and the clarification that became necessary because of articles like his, say something very, very different. And there's no changing that.
 
I wouldn't presume to know how well he keeps his religious vows, but I do know that he is a smart guy who came from a typical middle class family and worked his way into a position of respect over the years as a journalist. He's not one of those "National Enquirer" types.

religious vows are for priests, nuns, deacons, brothers.

what you describe fits my definition of a good Catholic. Dionne is respected in his line of work as a journalist, an educator and is known as a good family man.

here's an interesting article from Dionne addressing the stridency of the Catholic Bishops. http://commonwealmagazine.org/print/6275
 
Gigi,I just read an article about a branch of my own Church where they are asking to remove their tax exempt status because he told his flock to vote out Obama.

You are naive if you think the different sections of the Church do not have different ideas.
The arrest of the Pope's Butler because many object to the corruption in the Vatican is just another example.

I am not upset because I have already said when I object to things my Pastor says I say so and he is right leaning. I voiced my opinion very loud when he made fun of the President. So did many others. Enough complaints and the board will handle it.

I live in the real world where I deal with facts, not a fairy tale that everything is perfect. Man will never be perfect and they run the Churches. To refuse to see that is harmful to those who refuse. Not to look at both sides is wrong.

MaryAnne, I'm aware of what different Catholic people think. But this is a religion that believes very firmly that God creates life and you don't interfere with a life He's created.This religion arrives at this belief from Scripture. Consider the fact that people who have devoted their lives to this religion are now being told they must contribute to anyone's decision to end those lives God creates by supplying the means. I would bet that there are things you and everyone else here would have no part in whatsoever because you believe those things offend God or are just plain immoral. Lucky for you that your views line up with the popular opinion. But what if they didn't? What if you were forced to participate in something you felt way deep down in your soul was evil? Never say never. You all said it wouldn't happen to us when we worried about it.

The Catholic people who want the Church to change their point of view don't have any Scriptural evidence or support for why the Church should change.
Their arguments are a combination of politics and a twisting of teachings on conscience. They don't have a way to reconcile what they want to see happen to what the Catholic Church believes about God and life. The closest they come to bringing God into it is to say that God forgives. . But then they're back to that other annoying Catholic teaching: You don't exploit God's Mercy by doing what you want. And if they know something is a sin that God has to forgive, why make others complicit in it, too? You may disagree with this, but that's Catholicism. And, it's also the belief of other Christian faiths as well. Everybody's got their eye on the Catholic Church right now, because that's where the media has trained our eyes. But the fact is, the Catholic Church is not alone in this fight at all.

People like to use that quote of Jesus'....Give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Well, Catholicism believes that every life belongs to God.
I've asked on this board before...Why does God choose to begin each life with two cells in a fallopian tube? Nobody has an answer. God knows why though.

Up until Obama did what he did with this mandate, there was no discussion going on about the Church denying women their secular rights. That's spin meant to take the focus off of the fact that Obama is playing hero to a faction of his voters and a couple of his political cronies.

Kudos to you for standing up to the minister who made fun of Obama. He was setting an awful example.
 
religious vows are for priests, nuns, deacons, brothers.

what you describe fits my definition of a good Catholic. Dionne is respected in his line of work as a journalist, an educator and is known as a good family man.

here's an interesting article from Dionne addressing the stridency of the Catholic Bishops. http://commonwealmagazine.org/print/6275

But not a word about this bunch of lies he told. After what he tried to pass off in the link MaryAnne provided, I don't know that I'd trust much else he has to say.
 
religious vows are for priests, nuns, deacons, brothers.

what you describe fits my definition of a good Catholic. Dionne is respected in his line of work as a journalist, an educator and is known as a good family man.

here's an interesting article from Dionne addressing the stridency of the Catholic Bishops. http://commonwealmagazine.org/print/6275

********************************
The ad included the usual criticism of Catholicism, but I was most struck by this paragraph: "If you think you can change the church from within -- get it to lighten up on birth control, gay rights, marriage equality, embryonic stem-cell research -- you're deluding yourself. By remaining a 'good Catholic,' you are doing 'bad' to women's rights. You are an enabler. And it's got to stop."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That was a nice read.This part caught my eye as it did EJ. An enabler allows destructive actions to continue until the person destroys themselves.

Seeing what is going on in the Vatican under this Pope and his enablers should make moderate Catholics thnk.
Comparing Obama to Hitler.The hate is so obvious only a blind man could not see.
 
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