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Orwellian NPR

Arkady

President
I was listening to a program on NPR, regarding what happened at Gitmo, and the Orwellian abuse of language was just breathtaking. Absolutely nobody on the program dared to use the word "torture" to describe what was, as a simple matter of proper use of the English language, torture. It was "enhanced interrogation techniques," "harsh interrogation," "aggressive questioning," and other oily euphemisms.

Torture is the intentional infliction of severe pain or suffering. This is the common historical use of the term, and also the definition under law. Under 18 USC Sec. 2340, it's "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control." The waterboarding of people within our custody by CIA agents clearly qualifies, unless somehow you argue that the suffering wasn't "severe" enough. The whole point of doing it, though, is that it's so severe that it will break even hardened terrorists to get them to tell you whatever they think you need to hear to make it stop. Even those who go through it in controlled circumstances, where they know those administering aren't going to want to go too far, and where they have the ability to call it off, describe it as extreme suffering. And for those suffering it at the hands of hostile captors, with no end in sight, save possible death, there's severe psychological anguish on top of that.

Even with the US Reservations to the UN Convention Against Torture, waterboarding clearly qualifies. It is an "act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession."

Other sources, like Articles 32 and 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention follow a similar definition -- linking torture to willfully causing great suffering. The same is true of Article 7(2)(e) of the Rome Statute of the ICJ, and the Inter-American Convention to Prevent and Punish Torture.

Many of the other methods used against the detainees also cross the line into "torture" by some or all of these legal standards (which include making threats of death or severe physical pain). But waterboarding is as clear-cut as it gets. Its whole point is to cause severe suffering in order to traumatize the detainee into complying with your demands. That's torture, plain and simple. Yet all the NPR "journalists" and their expert guests carefully avoided using that word, in favor of the various Orwellian euphemisms.

The moment the Bush administration claimed that torture wasn't torture, the mainstream media, utterly preoccupied with preserving the image of impartiality, obediently stopped calling torture torture (except when done by other countries and by terrorists, of course). I think that if the GOP officially took the position that Russians aren't actually people, the mainstream media would come up with some euphemistic term for them, to avoid sounding like partisans on the "controversy" of the person-hood of Russians.
 
I was listening to a program on NPR, regarding what happened at Gitmo, and the Orwellian abuse of language was just breathtaking. Absolutely nobody on the program dared to use the word "torture" to describe what was, as a simple matter of proper use of the English language, torture. It was "enhanced interrogation techniques," "harsh interrogation," "aggressive questioning," and other oily euphemisms.

Torture is the intentional infliction of severe pain or suffering. This is the common historical use of the term, and also the definition under law. Under 18 USC Sec. 2340, it's "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control." The waterboarding of people within our custody by CIA agents clearly qualifies, unless somehow you argue that the suffering wasn't "severe" enough. The whole point of doing it, though, is that it's so severe that it will break even hardened terrorists to get them to tell you whatever they think you need to hear to make it stop. Even those who go through it in controlled circumstances, where they know those administering aren't going to want to go too far, and where they have the ability to call it off, describe it as extreme suffering. And for those suffering it at the hands of hostile captors, with no end in sight, save possible death, there's severe psychological anguish on top of that.

Even with the US Reservations to the UN Convention Against Torture, waterboarding clearly qualifies. It is an "act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession."

Other sources, like Articles 32 and 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention follow a similar definition -- linking torture to willfully causing great suffering. The same is true of Article 7(2)(e) of the Rome Statute of the ICJ, and the Inter-American Convention to Prevent and Punish Torture.

Many of the other methods used against the detainees also cross the line into "torture" by some or all of these legal standards (which include making threats of death or severe physical pain). But waterboarding is as clear-cut as it gets. Its whole point is to cause severe suffering in order to traumatize the detainee into complying with your demands. That's torture, plain and simple. Yet all the NPR "journalists" and their expert guests carefully avoided using that word, in favor of the various Orwellian euphemisms.

The moment the Bush administration claimed that torture wasn't torture, the mainstream media, utterly preoccupied with preserving the image of impartiality, obediently stopped calling torture torture (except when done by other countries and by terrorists, of course). I think that if the GOP officially took the position that Russians aren't actually people, the mainstream media would come up with some euphemistic term for them, to avoid sounding like partisans on the "controversy" of the person-hood of Russians.

So then prisons are torture? This is good to know. Apparently we torture all of the time.
 
NPR only did this because the torture happened on Obama's watch, too. If it had stopped in 2009 like Obama said it would, they would be out there throwing molotov cocktails at cops and burning down stores...
 
I was listening to a program on NPR, regarding what happened at Gitmo, and the Orwellian abuse of language was just breathtaking. Absolutely nobody on the program dared to use the word "torture" to describe what was, as a simple matter of proper use of the English language, torture. It was "enhanced interrogation techniques," "harsh interrogation," "aggressive questioning," and other oily euphemisms.

Torture is the intentional infliction of severe pain or suffering. This is the common historical use of the term, and also the definition under law. Under 18 USC Sec. 2340, it's "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control." The waterboarding of people within our custody by CIA agents clearly qualifies, unless somehow you argue that the suffering wasn't "severe" enough. The whole point of doing it, though, is that it's so severe that it will break even hardened terrorists to get them to tell you whatever they think you need to hear to make it stop. Even those who go through it in controlled circumstances, where they know those administering aren't going to want to go too far, and where they have the ability to call it off, describe it as extreme suffering. And for those suffering it at the hands of hostile captors, with no end in sight, save possible death, there's severe psychological anguish on top of that.

Even with the US Reservations to the UN Convention Against Torture, waterboarding clearly qualifies. It is an "act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession."

Other sources, like Articles 32 and 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention follow a similar definition -- linking torture to willfully causing great suffering. The same is true of Article 7(2)(e) of the Rome Statute of the ICJ, and the Inter-American Convention to Prevent and Punish Torture.

Many of the other methods used against the detainees also cross the line into "torture" by some or all of these legal standards (which include making threats of death or severe physical pain). But waterboarding is as clear-cut as it gets. Its whole point is to cause severe suffering in order to traumatize the detainee into complying with your demands. That's torture, plain and simple. Yet all the NPR "journalists" and their expert guests carefully avoided using that word, in favor of the various Orwellian euphemisms.

The moment the Bush administration claimed that torture wasn't torture, the mainstream media, utterly preoccupied with preserving the image of impartiality, obediently stopped calling torture torture (except when done by other countries and by terrorists, of course). I think that if the GOP officially took the position that Russians aren't actually people, the mainstream media would come up with some euphemistic term for them, to avoid sounding like partisans on the "controversy" of the person-hood of Russians.
The euphemisms suck, but the generic branding of it bothers me even more. If a guy was water boarded, let's call it that specifically. Anal rehydration, bamboo splinters, what have you - the actual act itself should be mentioned where possible.

But I do agree. I can't stand euphemisms - especially contrived ones that sugarcoat reality ("enhanced interrogation", "revenue enhancement", etc.). Bite the bullet and name it for what it is.
 
NPR only did this because the torture happened on Obama's watch, too. If it had stopped in 2009 like Obama said it would, they would be out there throwing molotov cocktails at cops and burning down stores...

The way I see it, the issue comes down to what is acceptable physical and or mental pain and suffering. One would argue that it is relative. The prisoners of Gitmo are treated far better than they would be fifhting for their respective terror organizations. On the other hand, one could, using Arkady's definition of torture, consider the inner city lifestyle torture.

Personally, I think life under Barry's less than beneficent heel has been torture for a lot of people who would like to look after their families and simply can't.
 
NPR only did this because the torture happened on Obama's watch, too. If it had stopped in 2009 like Obama said it would, they would be out there throwing molotov cocktails at cops and burning down stores...
No. They played the same Orwellian games back in 2008 and before.
 
The euphemisms suck, but the generic branding of it bothers me even more. If a guy was water boarded, let's call it that specifically. Anal rehydration, bamboo splinters, what have you - the actual act itself should be mentioned where possible.

But I do agree. I can't stand euphemisms - especially contrived ones that sugarcoat reality ("enhanced interrogation", "revenue enhancement", etc.). Bite the bullet and name it for what it is.
Agreed on all fronts.
 
The way I see it, the issue comes down to what is acceptable physical and or mental pain and suffering. One would argue that it is relative. The prisoners of Gitmo are treated far better than they would be fifhting for their respective terror organizations. On the other hand, one could, using Arkady's definition of torture, consider the inner city lifestyle torture.

Personally, I think life under Barry's less than beneficent heel has been torture for a lot of people who would like to look after their families and simply can't.
We're not talking about something that is merely unpleasant or uncomfortable. We're talking about something specifically designed to cause such anguish that even a hardened fighter will betray his closest comrades to make the suffering end.
 
Then there is no such thing as torture, since laws for dtainees are different than for others.
The suffering being inflicted on the detainees with the torture techniques are not "incidental" to lawful punishment. It's not like, say, bad prison food. The severe suffering is being inflicted on purpose to try to get information.

How about you: how would you define torture, for legal purposes? It would be helpful if you thought of it in terms of an American P.O.W. and an Islamist captor. If one of our soldiers was being questioned by a foreign jailer, at what point would the conduct cross the line where you'd treat it as a war crime? Waterboarding? Forcible sodomy? Castration? Electrocution?
 
We're not talking about something that is merely unpleasant or uncomfortable. We're talking about something specifically designed to cause such anguish that even a hardened fighter will betray his closest comrades to make the suffering end.

That's kind of the point.
 
The suffering being inflicted on the detainees with the torture techniques are not "incidental" to lawful punishment. It's not like, say, bad prison food. The severe suffering is being inflicted on purpose to try to get information.

How about you: how would you define torture, for legal purposes? It would be helpful if you thought of it in terms of an American P.O.W. and an Islamist captor. If one of our soldiers was being questioned by a foreign jailer, at what point would the conduct cross the line where you'd treat it as a war crime? Waterboarding? Forcible sodomy? Castration? Electrocution?

There is no "lawful" punishment outside of international law, which is not observed by terrorists. You can claim that what is being done is immoral, but there is no saying that it's unlawful.
 
There is no "lawful" punishment outside of international law, which is not observed by terrorists. You can claim that what is being done is immoral, but there is no saying that it's unlawful.
The rule of law is not a symmetrical compact. Criminals disobey the law all the time, but they are still protected by it. For example, George W. Bush didn't observe the law that said he needed to get a warrant from the FISA court before ordering electronic surveillance of US persons. Yet, despite his choice to ignore the law, if I were to find him and out a bullet in his head, it would be murder. His breaking of the law doesn't mean that others may do the same with regard to him.
 
That's kind of the point.
Yes. And the point here is that it's torture, and yet for reason of political correctness, mainstream media outlets refuse to describe it as such. As soon as the Bush administration took the indefensible position that water boarding isn't torture, it became politically incorrect for outlets like NPR to continue to describe it as such (other than in the context of foreigners doing it to our people, of course).
 
The rule of law is not a symmetrical compact. Criminals disobey the law all the time, but they are still protected by it. For example, George W. Bush didn't observe the law that said he needed to get a warrant from the FISA court before ordering electronic surveillance of US persons. Yet, despite his choice to ignore the law, if I were to find him and out a bullet in his head, it would be murder. His breaking of the law doesn't mean that others may do the same with regard to him.

Actually, the law is pretty symetrical. If you are a US citizen and you encounter another US citizen pointing a gun at you, you can shoot them.

If a reporter withholds contacts needed by the justice dept, that reporter can be held in contempt.

These are by US laws. International law concerning terrorists is far sketchier. Since we are at war with terrorists, and they do not observe the Geneva Convention, we are not obligated to either. Any observance we do show is for our own benefit.
 
Yes. And the point here is that it's torture, and yet for reason of political correctness, mainstream media outlets refuse to describe it as such. As soon as the Bush administration took the indefensible position that water boarding isn't torture, it became politically incorrect for outlets like NPR to continue to describe it as such (other than in the context of foreigners doing it to our people, of course).

I have to agree with Rick on this one. It would be less inflamatory and far more accurate to just say what kind of interrogation was used. The term "torture" doesn't bother me in the least, however, it's something easily misinterpreted since the definition is so broad. I would rather have a terrorist experience intense temporary trauma than lose innocent lives.
 
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No. They played the same Orwellian games back in 2008 and before.


You're right. They should just say "torture"because that is what it is.
But let's not pretend that it was the GOP that came up with the language game. "Uterine contents", anyone? The left has used semantic gymnastics for a very long time now.
 
Yes. And the point here is that it's torture, and yet for reason of political correctness, mainstream media outlets refuse to describe it as such. As soon as the Bush administration took the indefensible position that water boarding isn't torture, it became politically incorrect for outlets like NPR to continue to describe it as such (other than in the context of foreigners doing it to our people, of course).

I think since it's quite obvious that these same Democrat Senators are proven to have known about these CIA programs while it was all happening... there's certainly a lighter tone used to describe it.

... because if it was a Republican-only problem, as stated earlier, you can bet it'd be called "torture". That's just how the media works, with so many Obama voters giving us the news.

Meanwhile, it should be known that these Democrat Senators, who are suddenly enraged about CIA programs they were strangely fine with at the time in question, also didn't find any facts in their report. They didn't interview anyone at the CIA. They made a political attack of which they are entirely guilty of. However, the media will end up suggesting it's mostly seen as a Republican issue.
 
You're right. They should just say "torture"because that is what it is.
But let's not pretend that it was the GOP that came up with the language game. "Uterine contents", anyone? The left has used semantic gymnastics for a very long time now.

Don't forget about defining the definition of the word "is"...
 
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