Question:
- Thread starter Barbella
- Start date
Bugsy McGurk
President
Yes. There is no fundamental right to those things, and there is ample fraud.
degsme
Council Member
Since they are voluntary participation and request progreams.. yes you do.
Voting OTOH is a fundamental Constitutoinal right... Slight difference.
You are not ENTITLED to SS or Medicare or Foodstamps or to serve in the Armed forces.
You ARE ENTITLED and CONSTITIIONALLY EMPOWERED to vote.
Barbella
Senator
That's what I thought, too.
Next question, then: If, when applying for any of those benefits, the poor and minorities are required to provide identification.....where, exactly, does that leave dems' argument that providing ID for voting purposes is a "hardship"?
Apparently, the poor and minorities DO possess ID's, huh?
Next question, then: If, when applying for any of those benefits, the poor and minorities are required to provide identification.....where, exactly, does that leave dems' argument that providing ID for voting purposes is a "hardship"?
Apparently, the poor and minorities DO possess ID's, huh?
OH, NO, you mean that a photo ID doesn't stop fraud?
Dammit... there goes the reason for voter ID laws.
Listen, you are attempting to disenfranchise voters. Why are you doing that?
Bo-4
Senator
They don't necessarily have to provide a government issued ID to get welfare or food stamps Barb. There are alternative forms of ID.. copies of their bills, etc etc etc.
Bugsy McGurk
President
Some do, some don't. And the GOP vote-suppression laws are carefully geared to require identification that likely Dem voters are least likely to have.
And since there is scant evidence of voter fraud that would be halted by the GOP's voter suppression laws, the GOP's efforts to thwart Dem votes, in violation of the most fundamental constitutional right we have, get thrown out all the time.
degsme
Council Member
Not everyone who collects these benefits votes.
Not everyone who votes collects these benefits...
The issue is one of RIGHTS.. I have a fundamental Constitutionally prptected right to vote. Denying me that right for an arbitrary and capricious reason - violates that right. And if such a violation means that even some legitimate voters are denied their rights - you have violated The Constitution.
If your worry is about multiple voting - go to the Phenalthaline Thumb apporach - I have no problem with that.
But the bottom line here is that the track record of the GOP over the last 30 years is to KEEP PEOPEL FROM VOTING.. You asked me for citations for that and I gave you 1/2 a dozen corut cases and there are more. That sort of Voter Fraud has a clear goal. Preventing voters that the GOP does not think will vote for them - from voting.
And that is what this ID requirement is about as well. And you well know it.
Because you cannot document any signifigant instances of voting by those who should not, in ways that affects elections. Yet disenfranchising thousands in elections with margins in the hundreds DOes and HAS.
Be honest for once. Own what you are trying to do.
degsme
Council Member
No that's actually NOT the law. There are multiple jurisdications where non-citizens can vote. Yes it is limited to local elections but that doesn't change your ignorance of the law.
And that is one of the OTHER RIGHTS as a US Citizen... I cannot be required to prove it EXCEPT at the borders or if I have committed a crime or unless you have Probable Cause to suspect otherwise.
IOW I don't have to prove my citizenship... YOU have the burden of proof to show that I am not. That is what THE CONSTITIUTION SAYS.
Bugsy McGurk
President
Bugsy McGurk
President
The architects of the GOP voter suppression laws jump through hoops to make sure that it is NOT the same ID.
Barbella
Senator
Sorry. I cannot, for the life of me, understand the mindset of those who feel people shouldn't have to PROVE they have the RIGHT to vote. I don't want to stop ANYONE from voting...IF they're eligible, and can PROVE they are.
What in the world is so hard to understand about that?
What in the world is so hard to understand about that?
Bugsy McGurk
President
Nothing, as you state it.
The problem is that the GOP voter suppression laws specifically monkey with ID requirements so that way more Dem voters lose their fundamental constitutional right to vote.
You keep ignoring that issue, but it does not go away.
Bugsy McGurk
President
Oy. You really should inform yourself BEFORE stating positions. Or at least Google things up yourself when your opinions are based on ignorance.
