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Request to conservatives here, regarding Benghazi.

Arkady

President
I'm wondering if someone can give me a short explanation of why, exactly, I should be outraged against the Obama administration for Benghazi. I get that it was a tragedy (albeit a very small one on a national scale), just like it's a tragedy whenever any of our citizens are killed. And I'm open to the idea that the administration made some decisions in allocating security resources or responding to threats in the run-up to the attack, which, with the benefit of hindsight, look like bad moves. But the tone of the Republicans suggests that they believe this is more than just a case of some run-of-the-mill mistakes leading to a few deaths. They have a tone that suggests they believe there was lawbreaking, corruption, willful misconduct, or at least the kind of gross negligence that shocks the conscience. So far I haven't seen any evidence to support that. So, can someone put the "scandal" in a nutshell for me, so I can see if there's something I'm missing?

Here's an example of what I'm looking for, based on the Iran/Contra scandal:

The Reagan Administration decided they wanted to continue supporting the insurgents in Nicaragua, even after a law was passed expressly and specifically outlawing that support. So, high-ranking members of the administration, who were secretly selling arms to our adversaries in Iran, diverted some of the proceeds of those sales to the Nicaraguan insurgents, behind the back of Congress and the American people. To keep things secret, a massive money-laundering operation was used, and arms were illegally procured from places like communist China. The administration then tried to cover up the criminal conduct, after details were leaked by the Iranians, and did so with illegal evidence-destroying operations. This resulted in a number of convictions, but George HW Bush pardoned everyone involved, thus removing any ability for prosecutors to determine how much Bush and Reagan knew and when they knew it.

That, I think, is a clear, concise explanation of why it should be seen as a genuine scandal of major proportions. It wasn't a mistake or even mere negligence. It wasn't something that merely looked like flawed judgment with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. It was a willful decision to arm our enemies and then fund terrorists, breaking a clear and specific US law. It was done behind Congress's back for years, by people who knew perfectly well they were breaking the law. It was a major criminal conspiracy and a criminal coverup, with the wrongdoing compounded by the abuse of the presidential pardon power to block further discoveries.

So, can someone come up with that kind of nutshell explanation for what it is that the administration did wrong in Benghazi, and why we should be outraged?
 
Sure..."OBAMA IS EEVVILLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Only a dumb liberal can't see that....you can tell by just LOOKING at him.



:)
 
Sure, flawed judgement on the part of the administration resulted in the death of those people in Benghazi. The administration then engaged in a cover-up just before an election.
 
Sure, flawed judgement on the part of the administration resulted in the death of those people in Benghazi.

Yes the Ambassador is part of the administration.
Yes his judgement of risk/reward turned out to be on the wrong side of the gamble

No you have not demonstrated that the judgement was flawed. Perfect safety results in not being able to do the job. Risks are part of the job. Taking them is not "flawed judgement"

The administration then engaged in a cover-up just before an election.
Nope. Again no evidence of this. there is evidence the Administration was as transparent as it could be without compromising national security. Yes and?

OTOH there is lots of evidence that PRIOR to the election, the GOP engaged in a witch hunt.


That's not a compelling reason to be outraged.
 
Sure..."OBAMA IS EEVVILLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Only a dumb liberal can't see that....you can tell by just LOOKING at him.



:)
Those big ears give him away!Obama hears everything.

McCain and Graham are the ring leaders. and I think Bo gave an explanation for their actions in another post.

McCain is showing all the signs of senility. His rage has always been bad,not it is escalating. I know just enough about senility to know rage is one of the most common symptoms. Several freinds have done just that and my Mother was told not to turn her back on my Step Father. Before that he was a kind,good natured man.Thank goodness he did not go that way.
 
As I have told you before, degsme, you're irrational and immune to fact. I have stopped trying to debate you a long time ago.
 
Sure, flawed judgement on the part of the administration resulted in the death of those people in Benghazi. The administration then engaged in a cover-up just before an election.

What did they "cover up"?

People who watch the news knew from Day 1 that Muslim crazies attacked our compound with mortars and RPG's and killed our people.

Why are Pugs so mystified?
 
Are you guys angling for impeachment hearings? (Given that Lindsey Graham - who was a linchpin to the Clinton impeachment hearings - is at the center of the controversy, that is my assumption.)

From the way that Republicans and Fox are trying to run with this story, it seems that the country can look forward to another politically motivated impeachment drama pushed by Republicans that tries to play off the Watergate model. I have no problem with investigating what went wrong. It was not America's finest hour. But part of the problem was a cheapskate Republican Congress that did not want to pay for security and didn't provide the tools for the executive branch to work with. But I am sure that the intelligence services, the State Department, and the White House made mistakes too. However, the point is to learn from mistakes rather than try to score political points. (If Democrats had tried to impeach the Bush-Cheney regime for the multiple mistakes that they made, the country would have been in a shit load of trouble.)

Anyway, I don't think that Republicans are sincere in their attacks. If the shoe was on the other foot and Benghazi had happened under a Republican President or a conservative, conservatives would be silent. The Watergate analogies that we hear from Republicans (but not from Democrats) is just part of an on-going political vendetta.

I would rather McCain and Graham focus more attention on negotiating a solution to help avert the fiscal cliff.

Sure, flawed judgement on the part of the administration resulted in the death of those people in Benghazi. The administration then engaged in a cover-up just before an election.
 
Yes yes.... republican's fault....blah blah blah. I get it, defend Obama at all costs. Charlene Lamb said that budget concerns weren't at issue, but far be it from facts to get in the way of a good talking point.

Assets were available and were told to stand down. That is a fact.
 
I'm at a loss on this one. Is it possible the administration back-burnered this story until after the election? Yes - that's possible. Is it possible that it mishandled some aspects? I suppose. But some folks seem to imply that intentional sacrifice of American lives was made by design in order to maintain some constructive narrative of "Arab Spring". I don't buy that. A few others have suggested that something illegal and covert was going on at Benghazi. I've seen no evidence of this either.

I've opted to sit this thing out. Washington can investigate whatever they want, but constantly cryng wolf is a personal capital- and credibility-killer.
 
You sure seem to enjoy this "go get me stuff so I can blow you off" game that you are playing. I thought you would have figured out by now that I am not playing it.

We have been talking about this for 2 months now. If you're still that ill informed, nothing I can do is going to help you.
 
Assets were available and were told to stand down. That is a fact.

That is an accusation. That is not an established fact.

Lindsey Graham and John McCain are not interested in a fair hearing. They are interested in a witch-hunt.

Like I said, I have no problem with hearings. I do have a problem with a rush to judgement. Evidently, since Obama is the one being judged, Republicans have no problems with a rush to judgement. They have already charged, tried, and convicted Obama simply because they don't like Obama. Typical conservatives.
 
You sure seem to enjoy this "go get me stuff so I can blow you off" game that you are playing. I thought you would have figured out by now that I am not playing it.

We have been talking about this for 2 months now. If you're still that ill informed, nothing I can do is going to help you.

Translation: If someone actually "lied about the movie," I could paste in that "lie" quicker than it takes me to type a post refusing to do that. But I have no such quote, as you can see, because no one lied. We Pugs just like saying "They lied!" Argggghhh!
 
Rick,

You and I are on the same page on this issue. I have no problem with investigations to get information out. Conspiracy theories are another thing. But it is not the most important question facing the United States at the moment.

BTW, it looks like the B-ball Huskies may have a bit of a down year this year. We'll see. I am hoping that the football Huskies make it to 8-4 (good chance) and get a respectable bowl bid.

I'm at a loss on this one. Is it possible the administration back-burnered this story until after the election? Yes - that's possible. Is it possible that it mishandled some aspects? I suppose. But some folks seem to imply that intentional sacrifice of American lives was made by design in order to maintain some constructive narrative of "Arab Spring". I don't buy that. A few others have suggested that something illegal and covert was going on at Benghazi. I've seen no evidence of this either.

I've opted to sit this thing out. Washington can investigate whatever they want, but constantly cryng wolf is a personal capital- and credibility-killer.
 
That is an accusation by the assets that were available and told to stand down. Some of those assets lost their lives defying the stand down order.

After 4 years of Vallerie Plame and "endangering a CIA agent", how you can honestly say that the actual death of a CIA agent is not worth an investigation is amazing if we were talking about rational people.
 
Yes, I can honestly say that Republicans are playing politics - as usual. But Fox News knows that there are plenty of stooges who will fall for the bullshit that they broadcast.

It is nice to know that the real motivation is Republican payback for Valerie Plame. Republicans are incorrigibly partisan and dishonorable.

That is an accusation by the assets that were available and told to stand down. Some of those assets lost their lives defying the stand down order.

After 4 years of Vallerie Plame and "endangering a CIA agent", you can honestly say that the actual death of a CIA agent is not worth an investigation is amazing if we were talking about rational people.
 
Yes yes.... republican's fault....blah blah blah. I get it, defend Obama at all costs. Charlene Lamb said that budget concerns weren't at issue, but far be it from facts to get in the way of a good talking point.

Assets were available and were told to stand down. That is a fact.

Color--THAT is NOT a fact! I have read ABC state that it was absolutely NOT true.

Your facts are usually Fiction because you rely on Propaganda and Entertainment sources.
 
No you are right....Nothing is wrong with Killing America people...nothing wrong if you know people are being attacked and you do nothing...say like if some one takes a gun starts screaming I am going to kill arkady's family and arkady calls the police(the Cambridge Police)...because that is who you call..its the proper chain of command in a situation like this to request help...and help is denied...and then if a policeman comes to help from another department, he will be accused of disobeying orders??? No and if they blame it on some video game that hasnt been released because it causes violence or blame it on a small and savage group and wont try to arrest the criminal(s) ...I guess you would have no problem with that.

Wow the lengths lefty will go to justify the inept failures that caused the deaths...it's just wrong....very wrong.

Stick to what you do best...enforcing JIM CROW in States like Alabama.
 
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