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seriously, PJ cons. I don't think you are bad people

I just think that your brains were seriously violated like commie brains were under the Soviets.
And I hope this article from conservative but not blind hack writer may help you out into the real world:
Please read and think:



Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.

Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thing; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.


Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bullshit. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its ass handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-the-msm-and-failed-the-rank-and-file/264855/
 
yes you do.

fess up.

Just read the article, phil.
And actually no, I do not.
I have a close friend (Ukrainian)who is loony and spews all that FOX crap every time I meet him at the bar(but when we do not talk Politics very nice guy and we have some business dealings together).
I always practice FOX debunking on him, before I come to PJ board
 
I think otherwise -- whatta surprise, no?

As far as I am concerned it doesn't make a damn bit of difference as to the cause/explanation for who and what they are as defined by who and what they support, the mere fact that they support so many of the abominable things that they do is determinative. And if you take a long hard look at things like the way they've freely and willingly given their pols and pundits a licenhse to lie with impunity -- and their actually almost demanding it -- then ignorance as an excuse is lost.

The denizens of the darkside know who and what they are, which is why they are so reliant on dishonesty and denials, which in turn, is every bit as much about hiding from themselves as it is these realities that define and serve as a valid means of reasonably and properly judging them.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if they are truly evil or merely in the service of it from the pov of their intended victims. It's similar to though not necessarily to be confused strictly with, the "just following orders" defense. It's hopelessly flawed as a means of escaping judgement.
 
i read it before i posted it.

ok. if you say so.


(BTW.. there are many loony Ukrainians... that is true..
 
I think otherwise -- whatta surprise, no?

As far as I am concerned it doesn't make a damn bit of difference as to the cause/explanation for who and what they are as defined by who and what they support, the mere fact that they support so many of the abominable things that they do is determinative. And if you take a long hard look at things like the way they've freely and willingly given their pols and pundits a licenhse to lie with impunity -- and their actually almost demanding it -- then ignorance as an excuse is lost.

The denizens of the darkside know who and what they are, which is why they are so reliant on dishonesty and denials, which in turn, is every bit as much about hiding from themselves as it is these realities that define and serve as a valid means of reasonably and properly judging them.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if they are truly evil or merely in the service of it from the pov of their intended victims. It's similar to though not necessarily to be confused strictly with, the "just following orders" defense. It's hopelessly flawed as a means of escaping judgement.

I understand the point, Merc.
That's why I am using a con writer ,who did not abandon reality, with a hope to help them open their eyes on reality .
So even if they still stuck on the debunked ideology , at least get some facts straight
 
It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thing; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

Excellent read.. thanks Yuri.. misinformation... a bummer..
 
they are.. the both.

I have my fill every time i take my son to ukie school on saturday..


;-)
 
"Trounced" is a lot more emphatic verb than I would use for a victory margin amounting to 2 percent of the votes cast.

Republicans thought they could win, but didn't. Democrats thought they'd win in a landslide -- and didn't. Misinformation is a two-way street.
 
I understand dude, but that merely reinforces my point. We've seen what happens to those rightwingers that seek to inject some sanity into the closed minds of their brethren. Before the most recent examples like Frum and Bartlett -- and now Chris Christie perhaps -- we had those like Paul Craig Roberts back in the Bush days turned into lepers over their rejection of the Iraq War.

This is why the "morality" thing I've long argued (for a decade or more now) best explains the "rightwing brain" and the politics they pursue, as well as all the dishonesty, denials, and the many forms they take like projections, deflections, scapegoating, etc, etc, etc -- because ALL political povs are seeded and grow in, the fertile fields of morality. The two things are inextricably intertiwned and therefore inseparable from one another. I just don't see how if you support in significant numbers and measure what can objectively be called "evil things" like wars of aggression, torture, racism, islamophobia, homophobia, "let them die/eat dirt" or any number of the social justice issues to which they are opposed, and almost all of which are diametrically opposed to the teaching of the "good book" they profess to adhere to and that makes the "evil/good" distinctions they ignore on so many fronts, that you can be safe from the judgements it demands.

It's real easy for anyone to overlook and disregard all of this in their personal lives, because it happens all the time. For example, in your description of your drinking pal, that's exactly what you do, but let me ask, if he owed you a thousand dollars and refused to pay, would your "friendship" survive the test? Compare and contrast that to the potential for victimization and harm his support potentially creates for others. Isn't that the -- the steady accumulation and preserving of political support for abominable things -- precisely the process whereby the "Great Lie" was lapped up like Ambrosia? You really can't separate the "individual" from that process, you can just choose to overlook their failings in your personal relationships, which of course, gives the victims of their policy support ample justification for seeing you as part of the problem, in a "lending aid and comfort to the enemy" kinda way.

I of course also understand, that it is your hope and that of the many that are tolerant of and friendly towards that kind, that you'll be able to influence them and eventually bring them around to your way of thinking, but after arguing for ten years or more now that this is largely a fool's errand, who sits on the winning side of that argument, I would ask. This is why didn't have a single relationship with a "con" survive the Bush years, and have none now -- because an inter-personal relationship can rarely if survive the kinda condemnation for the things they support, and likely never if you have the hardassed pov on such matters as I've always held and stuck to. My now dead mother was the only republican I had any kinda quality relationship with in the last ten years, but then, it can't be said her mental faculties or political knowledge were really that of those we're talking about here.

We're in, as we've long been imo, an "uncivil war" dude http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/11/06, and as one whose political povs were forged in the civil rights/VN war era, I'm no stranger to any of this. Many issues are far more important to me than familial and social relationships, if those relationships can't survive the political/moral diffs and the condemnations that frequently accompany them. ANd as I've long argued it, it wasn't the enactment and enforcement of the CFA that "changed" the likes of a George Wallace, it was the fear of loss of those relationships that did. That kinda "trickle up" scheme is how all inhumanity is abandoned for the humane -- the pressure brought to bear by the individual, not changes in law. At this point, using a "civil war" analogy, it's incumbent on the members of the darkside to come into the light because white no longer means right, not for us to have any tolerance for their insistance on staying there.

This is what my guide, otherwise known as my conscience, has told me dude. ANd as we know, evil only grows when good men stay silent. In my estimation, this is nothing more than living the spirit and letter of the "first they came for the communists..." line of thought, and any relationship that can't survive condemnations of the other in it, ain't worth having to begin with, because that in and of itself shows the sand on which the foundation for it was built.

have a good one dude.
 
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