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Tax Time

Arkady

President
I'm working on my taxes right now and, man, am I getting hammered! I will have paid $69,000 in federal taxes alone, this year.

I don't have a problem with paying that much -- I make a good income, and should pay accordingly. I pay relatively little compared to what someone in my situation would have paid during our economic golden age. Today, if you earn $315,000, married filing jointly, the federal rate you pay on your top dollar is 33%. If this were 1954, and we adjusted that same $315,000 downward for inflation, someone earning that much would be paying 53% on his top dollar. So, we're talking about a 20-percentage-point drop. Given how well the economy and society did in that earlier era from the 1950s through the 1960s, when GDP growth was stronger, poverty was dropping, incomes were soaring, and the nation was accomplishing great things like going to the moon and building the Interstate Highway System, I'd be perfectly comfortable paying considerably higher taxes.... with one proviso.

The proviso is this: if I'm going to be paying high taxes because of fairly high earnings, I want to know that those who earn even more pay even more, as they did during that economic golden era. Back when people like me paid 53% on their top dollar, in 1954, the very wealthy could pay as much as 91% on their top dollar. These days the income brackets flatten out only a little above my level. Even if you earn hundreds of millions of dollars per year, the most you'll ever pay is 39.6% -- just a few points above what workaday professionals are paying. In the Eisenhower and Kennedy years, the gap between what workaday professionals paid and what the ultra-rich paid was nearly 40 points -- commensurate with the size of the gap between the professionals and the poor.

It's even worse than that. Although, in theory, the very rich pay a bit higher rates than I do, in practice they often pay at much lower effective rates than me, which was not the case of the very rich in the economic Golden Age. What drives my taxes up so high is that I actually earn nearly all of that money through productive labor, and thus most of it is paid at 28% and 33%. If I "earned" that money by sitting around collecting the fruits of other people's labor, by way of dividends or capital gains, then I could pay 15%. And if I had the kind of money needed to play games with that income, by moving it off-shore or slipping it into a tax advantaged accounts (like Mitt Romney's infamous $102 million IRA), I could pay even less. Romney paid an astonishingly low 14.1% effective tax rate in a recent year -- lower even than the minimum theoretical rate for capital gains and dividends.

No wonder we have such huge deficits, despite years of spending growth that have been the lowest since the post-WWII demobilization. No wonder we're piling on the debt despite record-high real GDP/capita, and social spending levels that are considerably lower, per capita, than in any other major wealthy nation. We're basically allowing our national wealth to pool in the hands of a few ultra-rich people, who pay shockingly low taxes. The Mitt Romney types have a good scam going -- they acquire a greater and greater share of the national wealth, but keep an angry cohort of much-poorer upper-class people stirred up against taxes, which hit those lower-upper-class people hard even as the ultra-rich skate by. The ultra-rich turn the upper-middle and lower-upper classes against the poor (and especially poor minorities). They get everyone beneath them fighting over table scraps while they belly up to the banquet. They know as long as they can keep the resentments of the peasants stoked (and we're all peasants to them), few people will stop and ask why we've let them set the system up so that all new economic gains, and then some, flow exclusively to their elite caste.
 
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Prepare to be attacked. Exposure to the truth elicits violent fits of hysteria among most of the posters on this site.
 
Prepare to be attacked. Exposure to the truth elicits violent fits of hysteria among most of the posters on this site.
No attacks -- I guess my long-windedness was more important than my tendentiousness, in this case: nobody bothered to read it.
 
That wall of text just to brag about how much you made last year? Why can't you just act like a regular lawyer and post a picture of your Porsche or your trophy wife at the pool?
 
Translation: WOW, you make 10 times what I make. I'm so jealous.

LOL! Arkady does earn more than me, but not by a lot. I've been blessed with earning a good living all my adult life, but I have no problem accepting that there are plenty of people wealthier than me in a monetary sense. But, I'm very happy with my lot in life, especially when I look at vindictive losers like you. Cheers!
 
I'm working on my taxes right now and, man, am I getting hammered! I will have paid $69,000 in federal taxes alone, this year.


You dont mean hammered ...you mean paying your fair share...every year buddy it's the same crap from you...I had to pay taxes....err your wife had to pay taxes.
 
I'm working on my taxes right now and, man, am I getting hammered! I will have paid $69,000 in federal taxes alone, this year.

I don't have a problem with paying that much -- I make a good income, and should pay accordingly. I pay relatively little compared to what someone in my situation would have paid during our economic golden age. Today, if you earn $315,000, married filing jointly, the federal rate you pay on your top dollar is 33%. If this were 1954, and we adjusted that same $315,000 downward for inflation, someone earning that much would be paying 53% on his top dollar. So, we're talking about a 20-percentage-point drop. Given how well the economy and society did in that earlier era from the 1950s through the 1960s, when GDP growth was stronger, poverty was dropping, incomes were soaring, and the nation was accomplishing great things like going to the moon and building the Interstate Highway System, I'd be perfectly comfortable paying considerably higher taxes.... with one proviso.

Again a long post preceded by meaningless information. You compare a "golden age" (1955) a time when the U.S. competed economically against a world literally ground to dust while the U.S. industrial complex was completely untouched. Really? Next, you assert a better progressive tax structure difference between then and now w/o discussing actual effective tax rate. Comparing apples to oranges does not work. You may be right but you haven't established that. Try again.
 
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LOL! Arkady does earn more than me, but not by a lot. I've been blessed with earning a good living all my adult life, but I have no problem accepting that there are plenty of people wealthier than me in a monetary sense. But, I'm very happy with my lot in life, especially when I look at vindictive losers like you. Cheers!

You spent a lot of YOUR life gettting paid IN tax dollars, didn't you, marv? In the military?
 
That wall of text just to brag about how much you made last year? Why can't you just act like a regular lawyer and post a picture of your Porsche or your trophy wife at the pool?
Perhaps I should have left my own information out of it. It's beside the point, really. I just wanted to argue that although I think the professional class should pay more in taxes, closer to what they paid in our economic golden age, I can see why they feel put upon, paying rates so much higher than most people, when the ultra-rich often pay less than them.

Just as someone who earns $300k per year should pay a much higher effective tax rate than someone who earns $30k per year, someone who earns $3 million per year should pay a much higher effective rate than him, and someone who earns $30 million per year should pay a much higher rate than that. We used to be structured that way, with rates continuing to rise significantly above the workaday professional level (as high as a top marginal rate of 91% in the Eisenhower years), but now we're structured such that the rates cap out just a little above what workaday professionals pay, and favoritism for unearned wealth (inheritance, dividends, and capital gains) actually results in much of the income of the very rich being taxed at lower levels.
 
Perhaps I should have left my own information out of it. It's beside the point, really.

Actually, I suspect it was the whole point. Although you have a major case of verbal diarrhea, I don't think you're the type who writes anything without thinking at least a little about the perceptions of your intended audience. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. It's ok to be proud of your ability to earn. But dodging it later is a bit gauche, don't you think?
 
Actually, I suspect it was the whole point. Although you have a major case of verbal diarrhea, I don't think you're the type who writes anything without thinking at least a little about the perceptions of your intended audience. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. It's ok to be proud of your ability to earn. But dodging it later is a bit gauche, don't you think?
The inclusion of that information was similar to the way a writer might say "The other day, I was waiting in line at the supermarket when I noticed the person ahead of me wearing a 'Ron Paul 2016' T-shirt." It's not meant as a brag about going to the supermarket; just an intro. And since I wrote it while taking a break from Turbotax, that's where my mind went. However, since it apparently distracted from the substance of the point, I'd have done better to keep any personal information out of it. The better I can get at depriving conservatives an opportunity to turn policy discussions into occasions for substance-free personal insults, the more I can force them to think about the actual point.
 
However, since it apparently distracted from the substance of the point, I'd have done better to keep any personal information out of it. The better I can get at depriving conservatives an opportunity to turn policy discussions into occasions for substance-free personal insults, the more I can force them to think about the actual point.

Well, you failed miserably this time. Try again?
 
The inclusion of that information was similar to the way a writer might say "The other day, I was waiting in line at the supermarket when I noticed the person ahead of me wearing a 'Ron Paul 2016' T-shirt." It's not meant as a brag about going to the supermarket; just an intro. And since I wrote it while taking a break from Turbotax, that's where my mind went. However, since it apparently distracted from the substance of the point, I'd have done better to keep any personal information out of it. The better I can get at depriving conservatives an opportunity to turn policy discussions into occasions for substance-free personal insults, the more I can force them to think about the actual point.


I think you're drilling a dry well, Arkady. Nice of you to keep trying though!
 
calculation shows you're paying an effective rate of 22% - on 315,000. you must have a very good tax accountant.

the reason the 50% plus marginal federal rate would be absurd now is . ..

- deductions and exclusions phase out much more rapidly today. decades ago you could deduct most of your health expenses, all of your mortgatge interest. even state sales tax and 100% of your charitable donations.

- state and municipal income taxes were MUCH lower. If you want the thrill of paying 50% (marginal) just move to NYC or Los Angeles.
 
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