The 2012 POTUS election
- Thread starter Ginnie
- Start date
Bluedog
Mayor
Agreed. The special interests groups to set the agenda. The rest of us have to get in line.
GordonGecko
President
Racists on the Right will be immediately happy if the President loses, naturally. Their celebrations will go into the mid to late 2010s. All in the vain hope that it was "a fluke" and that "America is still REALLY run by white people."
The Ideological Right are in for a rude awakening. Either the President wins...and all the charges of him being a "Marxist" are ignored by the voters and thus they show themselves to be irrelevant to the political discussion.
Or Romney wins....and due to his lack of a "core"....the deadman's hand of history....plain ol' REALITY...or even his "real" beliefs...Mitt is going to sell out the Right. Probably on taxes...definitely on spending...definitely the Neo-cons on getting us involved in another war in the ME.
The Ideologues are going to find themselves left high and dry. Rightwing Media will support Romney no matter what...because the RNC will tell them to. There is NO WAY that "Tea Party Republicans will FORCE Romney to be more conservative"....that's not how political power in Washington works. The Prez calls the shots.
So in a way, you're right. HISTORY is likely going to set the agenda, under either Romney or Pres. Obama.
The Ideological Right are in for a rude awakening. Either the President wins...and all the charges of him being a "Marxist" are ignored by the voters and thus they show themselves to be irrelevant to the political discussion.
Or Romney wins....and due to his lack of a "core"....the deadman's hand of history....plain ol' REALITY...or even his "real" beliefs...Mitt is going to sell out the Right. Probably on taxes...definitely on spending...definitely the Neo-cons on getting us involved in another war in the ME.
The Ideologues are going to find themselves left high and dry. Rightwing Media will support Romney no matter what...because the RNC will tell them to. There is NO WAY that "Tea Party Republicans will FORCE Romney to be more conservative"....that's not how political power in Washington works. The Prez calls the shots.
So in a way, you're right. HISTORY is likely going to set the agenda, under either Romney or Pres. Obama.
Arkady
President
Sadly, Obama has proven to be remarkably conservative -- extending Bush's tax cuts, Bush's wars, Bush's security-state overreach, Bush's military overspend, Bush's executive power abuses, etc., while systematically sheltering politicians and business executives from criminal prosecution for Bush-related crimes. But I still think he's governing a couple steps to the left of where Romney would likely be. Romney would increase the tax cuts, spend even more on the military, and further deregulate our already-under-regulated banking and investment companies. So, it matters who wins, even if policy will be horrible either way. Degrees of horrible matter.
D
Doc
Guest
I pretty much agree.
I am not so certain that we have a "Conspiratorial Agenda," but, rather "the Agenda of Aristocratic Fools."
(Of course, who are the greater FOOLS? The Fools, or the Fools who follow?)
Either way, whoever wins...the Rich, Powerful and Political Elites will all be "Winners...."
The MIDDLE CLASS, win, loose, or draw, WILL be the ones to catch the bill.....
I am not so certain that we have a "Conspiratorial Agenda," but, rather "the Agenda of Aristocratic Fools."
(Of course, who are the greater FOOLS? The Fools, or the Fools who follow?)
Either way, whoever wins...the Rich, Powerful and Political Elites will all be "Winners...."
The MIDDLE CLASS, win, loose, or draw, WILL be the ones to catch the bill.....
GordonGecko
President
Doc, for one who fears the Rich Elites...you seem relatively at ease supporting Mitt Romney?
Gramps
Mayor
I guess I am a loner with this topic. I think there would be several differences. While, as you say, it appears our course is charted, I think for the most part that course runs along liberal terms and has for years on end. And for years the conservatives were roped into allowing much of it rather than anger so many voters by taking away certain perks they fell in love with. I see Mitt Romney as a tool to re-invent the GOP which has lost so much crredibility over the past decade and the only way for him to prevail would be to put things on the chopping block IF he does retain a favorable edge in the congress. The loss of the senate to the GOP would be a disaster for the Dems. I don't believe Romney has what it takes to lead us out of this mess but I can see where he'd give it a shot and, perhaps, end up screwing things up more than they are. Four years, as every presdent has learned, is not really time enough to make a wrap of any policy agenda and I can see a time coming when the office of president is going to resemble the little white ball during a ping-pong game - the electorate throwing the incumbent out in hope everything will change and in the end make matters worse. Change is what a majority want and I don't see that happening. But should Obama prevail I can see, if he regains some support in congress, where he might be able to restore a sound base for the economy without using a hatchet. The Dems will never loosen their grip on SS and Medicare and universal health care while the GOP would, under Mitt's guidence let them repeal every damned program the Dems ever established.
Believe what you wish but remember what I've said. The change everyone gets might not be the change everyone bargained for but once it's done changing back, as history teaches, it an insurmountable task.
Gramps
Believe what you wish but remember what I've said. The change everyone gets might not be the change everyone bargained for but once it's done changing back, as history teaches, it an insurmountable task.
Gramps
GordonGecko
President
Gramps, there is the very real possibility that "I'll repeal Obamacare"....is Mitt Romney's "Read My Lips" moment.
Once in office if he won...his advisors would likely look at health care costs, plus popular items like no dismissal for previous conditions and covering older children under their parents' plans.....and NOT ALL of "Obamacare" would fall to the knife.
In fact, quite possible it would be a "trim at the edges"...and then "re-plant the cuttings" move by Romney.
Naturally he'd have plenty of cover for this from Rightwing Media...and all the "anti-Obamacare" Right would do their partisan duty....and become MAJOR hypocrites.
Once in office if he won...his advisors would likely look at health care costs, plus popular items like no dismissal for previous conditions and covering older children under their parents' plans.....and NOT ALL of "Obamacare" would fall to the knife.
In fact, quite possible it would be a "trim at the edges"...and then "re-plant the cuttings" move by Romney.
Naturally he'd have plenty of cover for this from Rightwing Media...and all the "anti-Obamacare" Right would do their partisan duty....and become MAJOR hypocrites.
D
Doc
Guest
?????????????
I did not offer a plan as to "what to do about it."
Care to discuss???
D
Doc
Guest
Because I think he will be less of a piss poor leader than the Community Organizer.
That said...no, I am not that huge of a Romney fan. Yes, I will be holding my nose, when I vote for him, this November.
And yes, Mittens is a Blue Blooded Aristocrat.
But, so are all the rest of them.
There may be a few, but, seriously...can you name any "common folks" in Washington????
Nothing but a gaggle of Aristocratic Elites, as far as I am concerned.
GordonGecko
President
Doc, what do you want a "leader" to DO about the power of the Aristocracy???
D
Doc
Guest
You know...I really hate throwing my vote away, BUT....for the first time in my life, I am considering just NOT voting for a Presidential Candidate. (Or maybe voting for Paul...)
DAMN, but, if I had a "Third" choice, not only for President, but, also for ALL of the elected Aristocracy who consistently seek to bleed me dry.
HEY...as a matter of fact...I think I'm going to just "write in" Citizens name!!! (At least I would have a clean conscience...)
D
Doc
Guest
Well, first off...good luck finding a "Leader" who is actually willing to curtail the power, wealth, and prestige of his own....That is INCREDIBLY RARE in human history. George Washington, perhaps the last to do so....
That said:
#1. Term Limits on BOTH houses of Congress.
#2. A dismantling of Federal Authority, with more power and money returned to the STATE and Local Level.
#3. Absolute, 100% LEGAL REQUIREMENTS of Transparency in ALL campaign adds, etc.
#4. A Constitutional requirement that Congress, the Administration, and the Supreme Court, ALL be limited to the very "institutional" retirement, health, etc. benefits that they set for the rest of America. (ie, NO "special" health insurance, benefits, retirement, etc., paid for by the taxpayer, OTHER than the very systems/benefits they set for us...)
degsme
Council Member
I think that's a remarkably ignorant view. It of course lets you avoid understanding the ins and outs of the situation and how things could be different, but fundamentally its ignorant.
For example. There is about a 60% chance that one of the 5 conservative justices on the SCOTUS will need to be replaced in the next 4 years. do you really think That the person Romney would nominate is anywhere near someone like Sotomayor?
Ginnie
Council Member
OK, I can see that, but I still think there is already an agenda set as to where America is heading & I think no matter who becomes POTUS said agenda will be followed.
Of course I could be totally wrong, but thats just how I feel.
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