The Single Payer System.....

[Zam-Zam]

....this is how it works:


Barry Coates, a 44-year-old Army veteran, visited VA hospitals and clinics in South Carolina seven times starting in 2010, complaining of severe stomach pain and rectal bleeding and practically begging for a routine cancer screening test.

When Coates finally got the colonoscopy, more than a year after his first visit, it was too late. Doctors found a huge tumor and diagnosed him with late-stage colon cancer, which has since spread to his liver and lungs. "I stand before you terminally ill," Coates told a House hearing last month, adding, "Someone should be held accountable."

So far, no one has been, although that might be about to change.

At a hearing on Thursday, senators from both parties expressed outrage over a string of reports from across the country of treatment delays, deaths of patients waiting for care, coverups and alleged document destruction at a VA facility in Phoenix. Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki declared himself "mad as hell."

VETERANS AFFAIRS : We can, and must, do better

More than anger is needed, however. It's action to identify and fix what appear to be longstanding, systemic problems. Reports and investigations going back years show a VA system overwhelmed by a surge of veterans needing care, often unable to give them timely treatment and plagued by some workers cooking the books to hide unacceptable delays. Among the most disturbing reports:

• The deaths of 23 veterans were linked to delayed cancer screenings dating back four years at 13 facilities in nine states. Six veterans died after delays at a single hospital in Columbia, S.C.
• Veterans in Fort Collins, Colo., waited months to be seen, and clerks were taught how to falsify appointment records to make it appear the small staff of doctors was meeting performance goals. Similar games were played at a VA center in Cheyenne, Wyo.
• At the VA hospital in Phoenix, a retired doctor charged that some patients facing lengthy waits for appointments were omitted from electronic files and placed on a "secret" paper waiting list. Forty died, he said, but it is unclear whether their deaths were linked to the delays. This month, a high-ranking physician at the Phoenix hospital told The Arizona Republic that there was an attempt to destroy evidence of the waiting list manipulations.

For VA leaders — including Shinseki, who has been on the job since 2009 — these problems should come as no shock. In April 2010, an internal VA inquiry found systematic "gaming strategies" at regional clinics to hide delays. The report cited about two dozen gaming techniques, some involving falsifying records.

There is no evidence of effective follow-up.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ary-eric-shinseki-editorials-debates/9147509/




Welcome to government healthcare.

 

[JuliefromOhio]

the VA is not a single-payer system.

 

[ITALIA]

....this is how it works:


Barry Coates, a 44-year-old Army veteran, visited VA hospitals and clinics in South Carolina seven times starting in 2010, complaining of severe stomach pain and rectal bleeding and practically begging for a routine cancer screening test.

When Coates finally got the colonoscopy, more than a year after his first visit, it was too late. Doctors found a huge tumor and diagnosed him with late-stage colon cancer, which has since spread to his liver and lungs. "I stand before you terminally ill," Coates told a House hearing last month, adding, "Someone should be held accountable."

So far, no one has been, although that might be about to change.

At a hearing on Thursday, senators from both parties expressed outrage over a string of reports from across the country of treatment delays, deaths of patients waiting for care, coverups and alleged document destruction at a VA facility in Phoenix. Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki declared himself "mad as hell."

VETERANS AFFAIRS : We can, and must, do better

More than anger is needed, however. It's action to identify and fix what appear to be longstanding, systemic problems. Reports and investigations going back years show a VA system overwhelmed by a surge of veterans needing care, often unable to give them timely treatment and plagued by some workers cooking the books to hide unacceptable delays. Among the most disturbing reports:

• The deaths of 23 veterans were linked to delayed cancer screenings dating back four years at 13 facilities in nine states. Six veterans died after delays at a single hospital in Columbia, S.C.
• Veterans in Fort Collins, Colo., waited months to be seen, and clerks were taught how to falsify appointment records to make it appear the small staff of doctors was meeting performance goals. Similar games were played at a VA center in Cheyenne, Wyo.
• At the VA hospital in Phoenix, a retired doctor charged that some patients facing lengthy waits for appointments were omitted from electronic files and placed on a "secret" paper waiting list. Forty died, he said, but it is unclear whether their deaths were linked to the delays. This month, a high-ranking physician at the Phoenix hospital told The Arizona Republic that there was an attempt to destroy evidence of the waiting list manipulations.

For VA leaders — including Shinseki, who has been on the job since 2009 — these problems should come as no shock. In April 2010, an internal VA inquiry found systematic "gaming strategies" at regional clinics to hide delays. The report cited about two dozen gaming techniques, some involving falsifying records.

There is no evidence of effective follow-up.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ary-eric-shinseki-editorials-debates/9147509/




Welcome to government healthcare.

Besides all of the other industrial countries with some sort of single payer systems that do as well or better at half the cost as we do are you also suggesting we do away with Medicare?

 

[Jen]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

 

[Zam-Zam]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure it was devastating.

Was anyone ever held accountable?

 

[Dawg]

....this is how it works:


Barry Coates, a 44-year-old Army veteran, visited VA hospitals and clinics in South Carolina seven times starting in 2010, complaining of severe stomach pain and rectal bleeding and practically begging for a routine cancer screening test.

When Coates finally got the colonoscopy, more than a year after his first visit, it was too late. Doctors found a huge tumor and diagnosed him with late-stage colon cancer, which has since spread to his liver and lungs. "I stand before you terminally ill," Coates told a House hearing last month, adding, "Someone should be held accountable."

So far, no one has been, although that might be about to change.

At a hearing on Thursday, senators from both parties expressed outrage over a string of reports from across the country of treatment delays, deaths of patients waiting for care, coverups and alleged document destruction at a VA facility in Phoenix. Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki declared himself "mad as hell."

VETERANS AFFAIRS : We can, and must, do better

More than anger is needed, however. It's action to identify and fix what appear to be longstanding, systemic problems. Reports and investigations going back years show a VA system overwhelmed by a surge of veterans needing care, often unable to give them timely treatment and plagued by some workers cooking the books to hide unacceptable delays. Among the most disturbing reports:

• The deaths of 23 veterans were linked to delayed cancer screenings dating back four years at 13 facilities in nine states. Six veterans died after delays at a single hospital in Columbia, S.C.
• Veterans in Fort Collins, Colo., waited months to be seen, and clerks were taught how to falsify appointment records to make it appear the small staff of doctors was meeting performance goals. Similar games were played at a VA center in Cheyenne, Wyo.
• At the VA hospital in Phoenix, a retired doctor charged that some patients facing lengthy waits for appointments were omitted from electronic files and placed on a "secret" paper waiting list. Forty died, he said, but it is unclear whether their deaths were linked to the delays. This month, a high-ranking physician at the Phoenix hospital told The Arizona Republic that there was an attempt to destroy evidence of the waiting list manipulations.

For VA leaders — including Shinseki, who has been on the job since 2009 — these problems should come as no shock. In April 2010, an internal VA inquiry found systematic "gaming strategies" at regional clinics to hide delays. The report cited about two dozen gaming techniques, some involving falsifying records.

There is no evidence of effective follow-up.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...ary-eric-shinseki-editorials-debates/9147509/




Welcome to government healthcare.

Punishment==they resign with more than likely Full benefits as Dr. Petzel undersecretary of VA...........SOS while Vets die..........

took me 8 months to get MRI and 2 1/2 yrs for knee surgery........only then after I contacted my Senators office.

 

[Dawg]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

I guess it was checked off as .........oh well.
Sorry

 

[IndependentinWis]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

Medicare is a single payer system for those over 65. Ask those people on the system how they like it. Ask how they would like a "voucher" system. The VA has been underfunded for as many years as I have been alive and I am 67 years old. Both parties talk about doing something, but neither really does anything. We are really good about sending young men off to fight our wars, but really bad about taking care of them when they get back. We had these same problems under the last four presidents. Remember the VA hospitals with mold on the ceilings of the wards. That happened during the Bush Administration. This is a problem where both parties are at fault and both parties need to pay for it. Elect more independents.

 

[Jen]

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure it was devastating.

Was anyone ever held accountable?

No one was ever held accountable.

 

[Jen]

Medicare is a single payer system for those over 65. Ask those people on the system how they like it. Ask how they would like a "voucher" system. The VA has been underfunded for as many years as I have been alive and I am 67 years old. Both parties talk about doing something, but neither really does anything. We are really good about sending young men off to fight our wars, but really bad about taking care of them when they get back. We had these same problems under the last four presidents. Remember the VA hospitals with mold on the ceilings of the wards. That happened during the Bush Administration. This is a problem where both parties are at fault and both parties need to pay for it. Elect more independents.

I agree with what you are saying here.
It's our government's inability to do things right. It's not a liberal/conservative issue nor is it a Republican/Democrat issue.

 

[Jen]

I guess it was checked off as .........oh well.
Sorry

Pretty much.
I'm sure someone said "sorry" to me.

 

[Renee]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

My friend had a similar experience in one of the best hospitals in the country...Hopkins. I am so sorry about your son. Her daughter was six.

 

[Dawg]

Pretty much.
I'm sure someone said "sorry" to me.

probably not at the military hospital.................

 

[Dawg]

Medicare is a single payer system for those over 65. Ask those people on the system how they like it. Ask how they would like a "voucher" system. The VA has been underfunded for as many years as I have been alive and I am 67 years old. Both parties talk about doing something, but neither really does anything. We are really good about sending young men off to fight our wars, but really bad about taking care of them when they get back. We had these same problems under the last four presidents. Remember the VA hospitals with mold on the ceilings of the wards. That happened during the Bush Administration. This is a problem where both parties are at fault and both parties need to pay for it. Elect more independents.

I was going to give this a LIKE........until last sentence...........if we do that, we get a liberal as YOU.

 

[Jen]

probably not at the military hospital.................

It's okay. At the time I wouldn't have heard it anyway.

 

[Figjam]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

...Jen, this is a gut-wrenching and heartbreaking story. I am deeply sorry for your loss - it is something I can simply not fathom.

...it is stories like yours that I think may separate military practices from public practice. Civil facilities are painfully aware that if something like this horrific story happened at a public institution it would be reported to the media. There would be criminal investigations and possible criminal and definitely civil law-suits. What I am trying to say is that I don't think the two are comparable.

...right now the PPACA is still using private insurers and public hospitals, only acquiring coverage is through a government run exchange.

...stories like yours also resonate when republicans keep harping on tort reform - I say NO to limitation on damages because once there are limits people measure the loss v. action and if the action would cost more than the loss, guess what - we lose.

...again, on a personal note, I am very sorry to read of your loss.

 

[Boltlady]

I can give you an example closer to home.
My 17 month old son died as a result of a government run system (military hospital).
They would not admit him. Sent me home.

They told me I was just being a "mom", that he was okay. Sent me home.

Then when he was barely breathing I took him to the emergency room and was told to go stand in line to get his records first (I refused of course and stood there begging them to see my limp baby that I was holding right there in their face).......... when I finally got him looked at the first thing that happened was "code blue" announced over the speaker for him.........
Too late.

This is what single payer will give all of us.
Same as VA. They go by the letter of the rules, make up a few rules to make themselves look good, have utter disregard for actual people in pain.

How awful for you, Jen. When my kids were small I was a navy wife and had both bad and good experiences with the military health care. Even the worst was nothing like yours though. I was sorry to hear it.

 

[Charcat]

Jen, stories like yours need to be heard--especially with investigation going on right now with the Veterans Administration. What needs to be heard are more personal stories of the treatment, or non-treatment of the military and veterans and maybe, just maybe, it will be fixed.

Your story breaks my heart....I'm so sorry.

 

[Jen]

How awful for you, Jen. When my kids were small I was a navy wife and had both bad and good experiences with the military health care. Even the worst was nothing like yours though. I was sorry to hear it.

Mine was in Groton, Connecticut. They took him (on life support) to Yale, New Haven...........and that's where he died. Groton bears the responsibility though.

I knew people who had some ghastly (military) medical care when I was in Italy. We had basically nothing where I was and if anyone got sick they were taken by mac flight to Naples and it was a 24 hour ordeal just to get to Naples. Women had to go to Naples a few weeks before they were to give birth because there was no American facility (and barely any Italian facilities) available where we were.

 

[Jen]

Jen, stories like yours need to be heard--especially with investigation going on right now with the Veterans Administration. What needs to be heard are more personal stories of the treatment, or non-treatment of the military and veterans and maybe, just maybe, it will be fixed.

Your story breaks my heart....I'm so sorry.

Mine was many years ago, Charcat. And my husband was active duty military at the time.