Volcanoes, not ELF waves, are melting the Arctic

[Mytzlplk]

and here's why

Have undersea volcanoes caused the Arctic sea ice decline?
A recent study discovered active volcanoes on the floor of the Arctic Ocean, and some people have wondered if they are causing sea ice to melt.

While volcanic eruptions surely warmed the ocean in the immediate vicinity of the eruptions, the amount of heat they produced compared to the large volume of the Arctic Ocean is small. The Arctic Ocean covers 14 million square kilometers (5.4 million square miles), about 1 ½ times the size of the United States or 58 times the size of the United Kingdom. In its deepest spots, the Arctic Ocean is 4,000 to 5,500 meters (13,000 to 18,000 feet) deep. The heat from the volcanoes would have dispersed over an enormous volume and had little effect on ocean temperature, much as a bucket of boiling water emptied into a lake would have little effect on the lake’s temperature.

Second, the eruptions would have introduced heat deep below the sea ice that floats on the ocean surface. The tops of even the tallest undersea volcanoes are more than 1,000 meters (3,000 feet) deep. The Arctic Ocean is strongly stratified, which prevents layer mixing and makes it difficult for any deep water, even deep water warmed by heat from volcanoes, to reach the surface and melt the ice. This layering results from a strong density gradient: water layers near the surface are less salty and therefore less dense, while bottom waters are the densest. Unlike most oceans, where density gradients are determined by both salinity and temperature, Arctic Ocean waters are heavily stratified primarily because of variations in salinity.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq/

 

[Days]

heh heh, the comparison was supposed to be between man-made intrusions into the environment (ELF waves versus greenhouse gases).

But yeah, an entire mountain ridge pushing up from the mountain floor through violent eruption is nothing like the usual seeping lava that we think of when we think of oceanic floor volcanoes. So, this was big, plenty big to do the job, and that 700 degrees Celsius is going to rise straight up under the ice cap and melt it from underneath.

And you know what? The ELF waves still resulted in more melting than the greenhouse gases. Of course, that's my opinion.

Hey, a small side note about posting: This place is full of opinions, it remains for each of us to be informed via our own studies before forming those opinions and also to be informed about the opinion one is responding to. Treasure the informed opinions you come across, especially the ones you disagree with; for therein lies the whole value of the place.

~Days

 

[Mytzlplk]

your baseless, uninformed, and rather silly and stupid opinions aren't worth spit, and hardly serve as rebuttals to anything.

they only illustrate for the readers that you think they are a worthy substitute for the science you can't wrap your mind around.

there are several descriptive terms to be applied to that woeful condition of yours.

for example, lightning and other natural sources -- as was pointed out the first time you went with elves -- generate far more elf waves at higher amplitudes and more frequently than all man-made sources combined, dwarfing them daily on both counts. Gee, how did the caps survive that assault before man built the first transmitter for example? ANd the power grids noted below, had no effect for decades. The only thing new tossed in leading to the current melting of the north, is AGW. It's so simple even a simpleton could grasp it, and your opinion on the volcanoes is overcome easily by the "informed" opinions of the scientists that wrote the article I linked to. Gee what's next, they are part of some grand conspiracy with nefarious motives deliberately hiding the efects of those volcanoes on arctic melt? Of course they are wink wink...

ELF radio waves are generated by lightning and natural disturbances in Earth's magnetic field, so they are a subject of research by atmospheric scientists. Because of the difficulty of building transmitters that can generate such long waves, ELF frequencies have been used in only a very few manmade communication systems. ELF waves can penetrate seawater to a depth of several hundred feet, so the US and Russian military have used ELF transmission facilities to communicate with their submerged submarines. The frequency of alternating current flowing in electric power grids, 50 or 60 Hz, falls within this frequency band, and power grids are an unintentional source of ELF radiation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency

but thanks for making it clear for the readers it's all too complex for you, and that you consider yourself "informed" despite that and your obvious desperate clinging to loony conspiracy theories. WHat I don't get, is why all the "mainstream" or prominent skeptics like anthony watts, stephen goddard, etc, etc, etc, never mention your stuff. That it is even too loony for them would give one with even half a brain pause, so apparently the reader need read no further to calculate the size of yours.

 

[Days]

You are not going to grasp how a pulsating frequency works, are you?

hint: lightening isn't.

Sooooooooooooooo... now you are going to post an apology for your insults, when obviously, you don't have a clue what you are talking about (again)?

I didn't think so.

Any poster who has to indulge in constant personal attacks is usually an idiot trying to cover for an inferiority complex. Some times, rarely, it can be an intelligent person, also trying to cover for an inferiority complex.

 

[degsme]

You are not going to grasp how a pulsating frequency works, are you?

hint: lightening isn't.

it ISN'T???

ROTFLMAO!!!! you really really really don't know what the fvck you are talking about.... do tell. Do explain to us the difference between a photon propogating at 0.25ev, 1.7ev, 14ev, 20,000ev, 200,000ev. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/ev.html

And what Lightning is other than multi-particle eV propogation
and what ELF is other than multi-particle eV propogation

or do you not understand Wave/Particle duality?

Look Days you're a nice guy and your hearts in the right place but you really don't know what you are talking about.

ALL EMF is goverend by


As well as Nu[sub]frequency[/sub] = C/Lambda[sub]wavelength[/sub]

So an ELF inherently has very very low ElectronVolt energy. IN fact it is so low that YOU are a source of ELF. Don't believe me? look up blackbody radiation.

For a given temperature there is a frequency at which you radiate energy. based on Planck's law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck's_law

The human body runs roughly 310[sup]o[/sup]K.
plugged into Planck's law and with an online calculator http://www.spectralcalc.com/blackbody_calculator/blackbody.php

You get that the radiation generated by the human body is around 9.5um in length... That's heating...


Remember that the way a microwave heats water is by turning the water molecule into an dipole antennae TUNED TO THAT FREQUENCY... but the problem is that ELF is not tuned to that frequency and hence you do not get any resonant reception by the water/ice molecules.


So ELF cannot POSSIBLY actually "melt ice" directly. It can only do so indirectly by reflected energy.. except that visible and higher frequency spectra make up much more energy in the radiation hitting the ice surface. So if ELF was melting the ice.. SO WOULD JUST NORMAL SUNLIGHT.. and while it does so to SOME extent, it does not completely.

IOW your math and numbers JUST DO NOT WORK OUT.

 

[Days]

[video=youtube;Yr66P-XBIzY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr66P-XBIzY[/video]


The Hutchison-Effect is back, with never-before-seen footage in our exclusive 2006 Remix-Edition. This must-see compilation features the classic levitation, jellification of metals, and transmutation effects in a montage of restored footage that you've seen on TV, and lost footage that you simply have to see to believe!

John Hutchison's work has been documented since the early 1980's on several mediums, which George Hathaway compiled in 1991 into a single 6-hour video featuring everything that he could find on the effect. Our remix strips it down to the bare-minimum: 4-minutes of intense footage showing you the Hutchison-Effect like you've never seen it before!

Nick Cook writer for British Military Journal, Jane's Defense Weekly stated that when visiting Lockheed Martin Boyd Bushman showed him the Hutchison Effect film. Nick Cook was quoted," Normally I would've looked at this stuff and thought this was someone's idea of a practical joke, but the fact that it was being highlighted to me by somebody from Lockheed Martin, that this was something I should be paying attention to."

The Hutchison effect was well documented by Col. John Alexander, who funded a 4-month exhaustive study of the effect through "Stanford Research Institute" and the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1980's. A team of four military scientists stayed with John to document his results, and found all of them (as witnessed in the 1980's footage) to be quite real & unexplainable by conventional physics. Two of the team members were physicists from Sandia National Labs. Hutchison and his supporters have surmised that these have come from zero-point energy. However, none of these claims have ever been reproduced or given credibility by the mainstream scientific community. John and his effect have been featured on television programs by The Discovery Channel, The Learning Channel, and Nippon Television.
From PESwiki
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Hutchison_Effect

Boyd Bushman has claimed that Lockheed Martin has researched antigravity technology, specifically gravity manipulation by means of magnetic fields, he even has stated that he experimented at Lockheed Martin's Fort Worth, Texas facilities, proving that magnetic fields affect the gravitational field and because of that, bodies don't fall with the same acceleration, a result different from the classical experiments made by Galileo with no magnetic fields present. He currently lives in Lewisville, Texas.
From Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyd_Bushman

[video=youtube;Ptu7xzhxu24]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptu7xzhxu24&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

pulsating frequencies, degs... it does a lot more than you think.

 

[degsme]

Yawn... Video of phenomenon even the original experimenter cannot reproduce in the presence of independent observers.

Phenomenon no one else can reproduce with the specified instructions.


Sorry Days... that's Yuri Geller land...


and as a side note.. WTF does "hutchison effect" have to do with ELF? So called "hutchison effect" only supposedly happens in HIGH E-field environments...and ELF by definition is LOW Efield.

 

[Days]

okay, what is the fixation on the frequency range?

pulsating frequencies can happen at any range. The Soviets pulsated an ELF signal across the ice cap for a dozen years, non-stop. That was eons ago, in terms of science. No one knows what it was doing. Strange enough, the ice cap primarily melted on the Soviet side of the arctic.

the Hutchinson effect was reproduced by Hutchinson, just not by mainstream scientists. Part of what he did was he set up an interference pattern using multiple pulsating frequencies, the anomalies at the WTC were using the same type of technology. File cabinets turned into dust, while the paper in them, survived. Steel beams and concrete turned into dust, not through pulverization; steel doesn't turn into dust from a gravity collapse. 1400 cars were toasted, tossed around, a city bus was completely destroyed and flipped upside down... all without heat and all well outside of the WTC grounds. In your mind, the towers came crashing down, but in reality, they never even hit the ground, they turned into dust mid-air. Did you know that there were survivors in the North Tower 2nd floor stairwell, unscratched by the collapse? They should have been pulverized into the basement. In reality, the stairwell was unharmed, nothing fell on it. Nothing fell anywhere. Look at the beginning of that film with the panoramic view of WTC the morning of 09/12. Peter Jennings is asking, "where did the rubble go?" - Look at it; there is no rubble. (2) 110 story office towers fell there the day before, no machinery has arrived yet, they haven't even begun the pre-clean up site inspecition. I stood on the pavement in between those towers, and I had been around a lot of skyscrapers... I was struck by how thick those buildings were; the sheer volume of material that fell on 09/11 is unprecedented. So look at the first 15 seconds of the video, where is it?

 

[degsme]

okay, what is the fixation on the frequency range?

Becuase Frequency determines Wavelength and vice versa. So if are claiming ELF you are ALSO claiming LONG wavelengths And Long Wavelenths have very little energy in them
Furthermore Long wavelenths are a HUGE impedence mismatch with molecular water and thus you don't get anymeaningful meltin.g

BTW the soviets also dumped still hot reactor cores off their shores as well but I guess those don't count as heat soruce.s

the Hutchinson effect was reproduced by Hutchinson,

Note when other independent observers were present.. IE just like Yuri Geller.

[/quote]
Its a phenomenon that does not exist except in low fidelity video.

 

[Days]

Well, you sure pick and chose what you wanted to answer.

At any rate, I said pulsating frequencies, not ELF waves. And you said I don't know what I'm talking about and then went off on ELF waves... which wasn't even in my post.

If pulsating frequencies is so worthless, we sure are building a lot of technological research bridges to nowhere, because we are sinking big bucks into the research of pulsating frequencies. HAARP is being built all over the planet and is ongoing for 20 years now... nothing to see?

 

[Mytzlplk]

thanks for conceding the validity of my remarks, and embarking on a different journey down the river Stupid.

Gee, where's the pulsating elf wave generator? Oh that's right, that's just another thing that exists only in your mind, such as it is.

 

[Mytzlplk]

hilarious, aren't they? The poor thing hasn't even been able to figure out yet that there's a difference between the resonance Tesla exploited in materials (and the resonant frequency of the earth) mechanically with sound, and that type of EMR resonance. It's got nothing but a hodgepodge of "knowledge", none of which it truly understands at any meaningful depth or breadth, or it wouldn't be trying to mate Tesla's work with elf waves as it has done from the start with its elf waves post. I'm guessing that it's "pulse" BS is an attempt to replace Tesla's mechanical device with vibrations induced by elf waves, since they correspond in length (at the right frequency) to the size of the arctic.

EGADS! If you "pulse" the elf waves at the right frequency and can "beam" them at the polar cap, then a resonant frequency would be established that would shake it apart!!!! not heat it up

that appears to be the ONLY reason the Tesla crap would be introduced into this.

but needless to say, any hope of achieving certainty as to what a knownothing is actually "thinking" when that "thinking" is based on things they have no meaningful knowledge or understanding of, is suspect at best.

 

[Mytzlplk]

in other words, you can't make up your mind as to which is responsible for the arctic melt -- elf waves, volcanoes, or "pulsating" emr signals that have escaped detection? Are they only detectable by tin foil cap or what?

ANd gee, if the volcanoes are the culprit, why would they go to all the other "troubles" with potential for detection and a giving away of their nefarious plans, if something natural like volcanoes in and of themselves provides an explanation for the melting that erodes the significance of that AGW stuff the scientists are just making up?

Are you claiming that you, unlike the scientists doing the EMR emitting, whether pulsed or not, are aware of the inherent dangers and damage to the arctic they are not?

Wow, you should let them know. You could be the savior of civilization as we know it, no?

 

[fairsheet]

I've been detecting the increased frequency of flatulation herein, of late.

 

[degsme]

Well, you sure pick and chose what you wanted to answer.

At any rate, I said pulsating frequencies, not ELF waves.

AIIEEE MAKE IT STOP!!!! Again Days your ignorance is astounding... BY DEFINITION.. ALL frequencies are "pulsating". And the difference between a "pulsed" frequency and a "continuous" one is meaningless when it comes to the ability of a particular di-pole (read water molecule) to conduct it.

Do you even know how an antennae works?

If pulsating frequencies is so worthless, we sure are building a lot of technological research bridges to nowhere, because we are sinking big bucks into the research of pulsating frequencies. HAARP is being built all over the planet and is ongoing for 20 years now... nothing to see?

HAARP has nothing to do with "pulsating frequencies " (itself a meaningless term). All HAARP is doing is injecting energy into the ionosphere in a known manner so that ionosphere reactivity to EMF signals can be better understood.

Yawn.

Days seriously... you are in tinfoil hat territory.

 

[degsme]

Its such claptrap that I can't even follow some of the more bizarre congruences. As I tried to explain to Days, he's not even wrong. In that he doesn't even have a valid framework within which to hang the various bits and pieces. Its like trying to play chess with checker's pieces on a MahJohng board.

 

[Mytzlplk]

that's a pretty apt description degs, and good way of looking at it. Some of the facts they assert are correct, but have no application whatsoever to the matter being debated

 

[Mytzlplk]

lol -- to be fair fair, some smell like roses, others rotten fish

 

[degsme]

Well it comes from having a "common sense" approach to trying to solve Physics problems. The reality is that the real world is so much more bizarre than "common sense" leads us to see. But it requires a very pragmatic approach to the world. I remember having a discussion with the Physicist who helped design the first disk drives (both the "winchester head" and floppy drives) His comment about odd phenomenom was "I'm a physicist - I don't explain WHY something works, I just explain what the empirical model tells us ACTUALLY works".

And then there was the famous Feynman comment of "If you understand Quantum Mechanics....you don't"

 

[degsme]

thanks for conceding the validity of my remarks, and embarking on a different journey down the river Stupid.

Gee, where's the pulsating elf wave generator? Oh that's right, that's just another thing that exists only in your mind, such as it is.

Actually it exists.. its kinda cool remmber that nu=c/lambda. so if you want something say with a frequency of say 0.1 hz, you need a full wavelength of something on the order of 10[sup]9[/sub] meter long antennae. So even a 1/16,384 ratio antenna you need a 1.8x10[sup]5[/sup]m long antennae. (ie 180km long antennae. So what they are doing is energizing part of the free-electron portion of the ionosphere and using that to transmit the signal.

Kinda cool but what of course Days doesn't get is the mechanics of how this sort of tuning takes place.