Wait, what?

[Raoul_Luke]

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let's underline two things here-just again, to set expectations.
Even during the Biden administration, every Biden official, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said they're going to have to give up land. They're not going to like giving up land, but they're going to have to give up land. That's number one.

Number two, they're not going to become members of NATO. There may have been people writing articles in The Wall Street Journal or elsewhere saying they have to be members of NATO, but you go around to every European leader-that was never going to happen. But there was an idea of a quasi–NATO-type guarantee. And they need that guarantee.

MSN

If that is in fact, a fact, then what the f*ck was the war all about? Why didn't Biden invite Putin to Alaska and offer him this deal, the same one Trump is offering now, BEFORE the invasion?

 

[Dawg]

There it is

 

[EatTheRich]

“This deal” is only on the table because of Ukraine’s battlefield victories. Remember, in 2022 there was no realistic prospect of Ukraine joining NATO and Putin’s announced goal was complete annexation of Ukraine.

 

[RickWA]

“This deal” is only on the table because of Ukraine’s battlefield victories. Remember, in 2022 there was no realistic prospect of Ukraine joining NATO and Putin’s announced goal was complete annexation of Ukraine.

*Exasperated*
Rushes to thread, CARRIES SHAMELESS, IMMEASURABLE quantities of DNC water.

DNCommunist attache ETR selling out…err…grabbing ankle…errrrrr…demonstrating the eternal nexus of Democrats and Communists. Same and same…if they were not, the forum self-described “communist” would not engage in DNC apologetics and damage control across ALL issues and candidates.

Always.

 

[EatTheRich]

*Exasperated*
Rushes to thread, CARRIES SHAMELESS, IMMEASURABLE quantities of DNC water.

DNCommunist attache ETR selling out…err…grabbing ankle…errrrrr…demonstrating the eternal nexus of Democrats and Communists. Same and same…if they were not, the forum self-described “communist” would not engage in DNC apologetics and damage control across ALL issues and candidates.

Always.

Weird, because my post was about Ukraine’s defense against Russian invasion.

 

[Boltlady]

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let's underline two things here-just again, to set expectations.
Even during the Biden administration, every Biden official, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said they're going to have to give up land. They're not going to like giving up land, but they're going to have to give up land. That's number one.

Number two, they're not going to become members of NATO. There may have been people writing articles in The Wall Street Journal or elsewhere saying they have to be members of NATO, but you go around to every European leader-that was never going to happen. But there was an idea of a quasi–NATO-type guarantee. And they need that guarantee.

MSN

If that is in fact, a fact, then what the f*ck was the war all about? Why didn't Biden invite Putin to Alaska and offer him this deal, the same one Trump is offering now, BEFORE the invasion?

If Biden had wandered into the woods up there they know they never would have found him. Couldn't have that.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let's underline two things here-just again, to set expectations.
Even during the Biden administration, every Biden official, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said they're going to have to give up land. They're not going to like giving up land, but they're going to have to give up land. That's number one.

Number two, they're not going to become members of NATO. There may have been people writing articles in The Wall Street Journal or elsewhere saying they have to be members of NATO, but you go around to every European leader-that was never going to happen. But there was an idea of a quasi–NATO-type guarantee. And they need that guarantee.

MSN

If that is in fact, a fact, then what the f*ck was the war all about? Why didn't Biden invite Putin to Alaska and offer him this deal, the same one Trump is offering now, BEFORE the invasion?

The war was about resisting the savage, violent conquest of a vulnerable nation by Russia. Before Trump came along and kissed Putin’s ass, you GOP cultists would never have questioned the cause. But Trump is obviously Putin’s puppet, so you cultists join him in taking Putin’s side.

This is not complicated.

 

[Zam-Zam]

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let's underline two things here-just again, to set expectations.
Even during the Biden administration, every Biden official, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said they're going to have to give up land. They're not going to like giving up land, but they're going to have to give up land. That's number one.

Number two, they're not going to become members of NATO. There may have been people writing articles in The Wall Street Journal or elsewhere saying they have to be members of NATO, but you go around to every European leader-that was never going to happen. But there was an idea of a quasi–NATO-type guarantee. And they need that guarantee.

MSN

If that is in fact, a fact, then what the f*ck was the war all about? Why didn't Biden invite Putin to Alaska and offer him this deal, the same one Trump is offering now, BEFORE the invasion?

When he was running for President in 2020, Biden boasted how scared Putin was of him. Shortly after Biden was elected, Putin waltzed right into Ukraine. That had to be a bit humiliating for tough-guy Joe and/or his string-pullers.

So, rather than try to bring about a peaceful resolution to his mess, he doubled-down on it by sending arms to Ukraine to fight a war they couldn't win, coupled with ineffective economic sanctions and laughable rhetoric. The result was a quagmire that destroyed thousands of lives. Ukraine has nothing to show for it, Russia has paid a staggering cost for precious little.

Joe couldn't do peace. Whether his successor can or not remains to be seen, but it appears there is at least a chance now.

 

[as seen on tv]

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let's underline two things here-just again, to set expectations.
Even during the Biden administration, every Biden official, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said they're going to have to give up land. They're not going to like giving up land, but they're going to have to give up land. That's number one.

Number two, they're not going to become members of NATO. There may have been people writing articles in The Wall Street Journal or elsewhere saying they have to be members of NATO, but you go around to every European leader-that was never going to happen. But there was an idea of a quasi–NATO-type guarantee. And they need that guarantee.

MSN

If that is in fact, a fact, then what the f*ck was the war all about? Why didn't Biden invite Putin to Alaska and offer him this deal, the same one Trump is offering now, BEFORE the invasion?

i always believed (and posted) that Ukraine would end up making land concessions. like what happened with Crimea.

Nato membership should be decided between NATO itself and the applicants. Not by Putin, or Xi, some ayatollah in Iran.

 

[RickWA]

Weird, because my post was about Ukraine’s defense against Russian invasion.

It was a reflexive Biden-defense mechanism, as always. Reflexive. Standing default position. Always.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

i always believed (and posted) that Ukraine would end up making land concessions. like what happened with Crimea.

Nato membership should be decided between NATO itself and the applicants. Not by Putin, or Xi, some ayatollah in Iran.

That is because you only see NATO as globalist good guys simply aiming to be the world's beat cops. If one views them (and not without good reason) as imperialistic serial regime destabilizers seeking to remake the world in their (utopian) Neocon image, you start to see why their targets don't all rush in unison to succumb to their siren song.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

The war was about resisting the savage, violent conquest of a vulnerable nation by Russia. Before Trump came along and kissed Putin’s ass, you GOP cultists would never have questioned the cause. But Trump is obviously Putin’s puppet, so you cultists join him in taking Putin’s side.

This is not complicated.

It was about destabilizing Russia refusing to succumb to NATO's efforts to fracture it into pieces that could be dominated and exploited by NATO members for their economic benefit.

Alastair Crooke suggests (video) that the peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine will follow the outline of the Istanbul Agreement negotiated in March 2022 between Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine, under pressure from the West, had at that time refrained from signing it.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

So they could have offered Russia these concessions before the invasion, as well as shortly after the invasion, but decided that war was in Ukraine's best interest.

How'd that work out for them?

ukraine destruction - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Not. Very. Well.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

When he was running for President in 2020, Biden boasted how scared Putin was of him. Shortly after Biden was elected, Putin waltzed right into Ukraine. That had to be a bit humiliating for tough-guy Joe and/or his string-pullers.

So, rather than try to bring about a peaceful resolution to his mess, he doubled-down on it by sending arms to Ukraine to fight a war they couldn't win, coupled with ineffective economic sanctions and laughable rhetoric. The result was a quagmire that destroyed thousands of lives. Ukraine has nothing to show for it, Russia has paid a staggering cost for precious little.

Joe couldn't do peace. Whether his successor can or not remains to be seen, but it appears there is at least a chance now.

Don't ever underestimate Joe's ability to f*ck things up...

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

It was about destabilizing Russia refusing to succumb to NATO's efforts to fracture it into pieces that could be dominated and exploited by NATO members for their economic benefit.

Alastair Crooke suggests (video) that the peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine will follow the outline of the Istanbul Agreement negotiated in March 2022 between Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine, under pressure from the West, had at that time refrained from signing it.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

So they could have offered Russia these concessions before the invasion, as well as shortly after the invasion, but decided that war was in Ukraine's best interest.

How'd that work out for them?

ukraine destruction - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Not. Very. Well.

Please. You make Neville Chamerlain look like a warmonger by comparison.

You should be ashamed of your appeasement, but you’re shameless.

 

[Raoul_Luke]

Please. You make Neville Chamerlain look like a warmonger by comparison.

You should be ashamed of your appeasement, but you’re shameless.

What is "shameful" is cheering for more of this:

Ukraine destruction - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

What is "shameful" is refusing to do what I have done - call for $5 trillion in rebuilding funds to address that carnage. After all, we led Ukraine down the primrose path, and in the end, they got "wrecked."