We still need that blue state/red state national “divorce”

[Bugsy McGurk]

Sure, Biden won the presidential election, but that’s not enough to eliminate the need for a blue state/red state divorce.

This is made plain by red staters’ reaction to Trump’s efforts to heist the election. The vast majority of red staters support those efforts. The bottom line is that blue staters just don’t want to be associated with people like that. We don’t want to share a country with such people.

We need a “divorce.” Red staters want a dictator? Fine. Have it. Red staters want elections to mean nothing? Fine. Go for it. But blue staters like the democratic institutions enshrined in the Constitution. We don’t want a political tribe taking it upon themselves to override the outcomes of election. And we clearly need the national divorce to be free of such people.

So, let’s divorce, shall we?

 

[EatTheRich]

Sure, Biden won the presidential election, but that’s not enough to eliminate the need for a blue state/red state divorce.

This is made plain by red staters’ reaction to Trump’s efforts to heist the election. The vast majority of red staters support those efforts. The bottom line is that blue staters just don’t want to be associated with people like that. We don’t want to share a country with such people.

We need a “divorce.” Red staters want a dictator? Fine. Have it. Red staters want elections to mean nothing? Fine. Go for it. But blue staters like the democratic institutions enshrined in the Constitution. We don’t want a political tribe taking it upon themselves to override the outcomes of election. And we clearly need the national divorce to be free of such people.

So, let’s divorce, shall we?

We in the red states would be left behind in such a “divorce.” Even with Texas, we’d be distinctly unable to compete with the blue states and would soon become a debtor nation. Conservative leadership in particular would likely make our standard of living plummet to far below that of, say, Mexico.

 

[BobbyT]

We in the red states would be left behind in such a “divorce.” Even with Texas, we’d be distinctly unable to compete with the blue states and would soon become a debtor nation. Conservative leadership in particular would likely make our standard of living plummet to far below that of, say, Mexico.

Not only that but we blue states would have to hire huge numbers of border security personnel in states bordering red states to process the hordes of left-behinds clambering to get out of the red states. We have a lot of border with Texas and Arizona - we'd be inundated.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

We in the red states would be left behind in such a “divorce.” Even with Texas, we’d be distinctly unable to compete with the blue states and would soon become a debtor nation. Conservative leadership in particular would likely make our standard of living plummet to far below that of, say, Mexico.

That is a problem, I know. All I can say is that we blue states will welcome immigration from enlightened red state people. We will also help you any way we can in your efforts to “go blue” and join us. But we cannot be stuck with rule that is tainted by red staters. That does us no good and it does you no good. It must end.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Not only that but we blue states would have to hire huge numbers of border security personnel in states bordering red states to process the hordes of left-behinds clambering to get out of the red states. We have a lot of border with Texas and Arizona - we'd be inundated.

I say we allow free immigration of like minded people living in red states. No need for harsh borders, except to keep out red state saboteurs who want to enter the blue states just to make trouble.

 

[BobbyT]

I say we allow free immigration of like minded people living in red states. No need for harsh borders, except to keep out red state saboteurs who want to enter the blue states just to make trouble.

We wouldn't know who are the saboteurs and who are the 'good guys' without processing the incoming. Plus, NM couldn't handle the influx from TX - it would overwhelm our little (by population and infrastructure) state. We would end up with huge refugee camps. Plus it would be a years' long effort to decouple the military infrastructure - for example there are capabilities in TX and NC military installations that are not duplicated elsewhere; just moving the people would be insufficient.

Nope, I think we need to figure this out as a united nation.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

We wouldn't know who are the saboteurs and who are the 'good guys' without processing the incoming. Plus, NM couldn't handle the influx from TX - it would overwhelm our little (by population and infrastructure) state. We would end up with huge refugee camps. Plus it would be a years' long effort to decouple the military infrastructure - for example there are capabilities in TX and NC military installations that are not duplicated elsewhere; just moving the people would be insufficient.

Nope, I think we need to figure this out as a united nation.

We can work out all those details. The “divorce” is not ideal but it’s just not tolerable to share rule of a nation with people who support Trump’s dictatorial goals. We must face reality - those people are vastly different that blue state people who respect the Constitution, the rule of law, and basic decency.

 

[BobbyT]

We can work out all those details. The “divorce” is not ideal but it’s just not tolerable to share rule of a nation with people who support Trump’s dictatorial goals. We must face reality - those people are vastly different that blue state people who respect the Constitution, the rule of law, and basic decency.

I agree they are vastly different: fascism is not compatible with our national value system. However, the things I mentioned are far from just 'details.' How they are worked out is the difference between two different countries and the huge swath of the American continent between Canada and Mexico being balkanized to the point of constant warfare and universal impoverishment. And that's not even considering the trade relationships between the US and other countries, nor the people of color with generations of familial history left to try to live on the land they love in a white supremacist red state The red states and blue states are far too intermingled in far too many ways to make that workable. The disruption to people's lives would be immeasurable.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

I agree they are vastly different: fascism is not compatible with our national value system. However, the things I mentioned are far from just 'details.' How they are worked out is the difference between two different countries and the huge swath of the American continent between Canada and Mexico being balkanized to the point of constant warfare and universal impoverishment. And that's not even considering the trade relationships between the US and other countries, nor the people of color with generations of familial history left to try to live on the land they love in a white supremacist red state The red states and blue states are far too intermingled in far too many ways to make that workable. The disruption to people's lives would be immeasurable.

I don’t mean to minimize the importance of those issues - they are very important. We have two alternatives, neither of which is perfect. It’s just hard to imagine the indefinitely intolerable future of sharing government with these people. The status quo just doesn’t work. They want a different future than we do. They cannot accept democratic outcomes. When they win they take the victory, and when they lose they still want to claim victory. I have had enough.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

I agree they are vastly different: fascism is not compatible with our national value system. However, the things I mentioned are far from just 'details.' How they are worked out is the difference between two different countries and the huge swath of the American continent between Canada and Mexico being balkanized to the point of constant warfare and universal impoverishment. And that's not even considering the trade relationships between the US and other countries, nor the people of color with generations of familial history left to try to live on the land they love in a white supremacist red state The red states and blue states are far too intermingled in far too many ways to make that workable. The disruption to people's lives would be immeasurable.

For example...

Man seen exhaling on women outside Trump golf club charged

A man seen forcefully exhaling on two women outside President Donald Trump’s Virginia golf course has been charged with assault

abcnews.go.com

Sheesh. Enough already.

 

[BobbyT]

I don’t mean to minimize the importance of those issues - they are very important. We have two alternatives, neither of which is perfect. It’s just hard to imagine the indefinitely intolerable future of sharing government with these people. The status quo just doesn’t work. They want a different future than we do. They cannot accept democratic outcomes. When they win they take the victory, and when they lose they still want to claim victory. I have had enough.

I can't disagree with how frustrating it is. Unfortunately we all have to much to lose if we try to divide. Sometimes the cure actually is worse than the disease. Fascism has tried to rear its ugly head here in the US before, and eventually we beat it back. We will do so again. And it will try again.

 

[BobbyT]

For example...

Man seen exhaling on women outside Trump golf club charged

A man seen forcefully exhaling on two women outside President Donald Trump’s Virginia golf course has been charged with assault

abcnews.go.com

Sheesh. Enough already.

At least they were charged. As long as that's still happening, they aren't winning.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

I can't disagree with how frustrating it is. Unfortunately we all have to much to lose if we try to divide. Sometimes the cure actually is worse than the disease. Fascism has tried to rear its ugly head here in the US before, and eventually we beat it back. We will do so again. And it will try again.

I wish I shared your optimism. I just don’t see those people coming back around in our lifetimes. Their minds have been rotted. They are cultists who cannot be reasoned with - truth means nothing to them anymore.

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

At least they were charged. As long as that's still happening, they aren't winning.

And we have a cult leader - Trump - who actually offers to pay the legal bills of those who do harm to “the libs.” As his rabble cheer.

 

[write on]

We in the red states would be left behind in such a “divorce.” Even with Texas, we’d be distinctly unable to compete with the blue states and would soon become a debtor nation. Conservative leadership in particular would likely make our standard of living plummet to far below that of, say, Mexico.

If this would come to pass, then I think it would be easy.

Move

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

If this would come to pass, then I think it would be easy.

Move

Over time, people in the remaining red states may come to finally learn that right wingers just can’t govern. Those states just may come around in time if left to their own devices. They could then petition to rejoin the blue states. But they must swear off the Trump-like craziness if they wish to rejoin us.

 

[write on]

I say we allow free immigration of like minded people living in red states. No need for harsh borders, except to keep out red state saboteurs who want to enter the blue states just to make trouble.

Any trojan horse will be set afire.

 

[write on]

Over time, people in the remaining red states may come to finally learn that right wingers just can’t govern. Those states just may come around in time if left to their own devices. They could then petition to rejoin the blue states. But they must swear off the Trump-like craziness if they wish to rejoin us.

Sounds good in theory. But don't lose sight of who we're dealing with.

Remember, there are 73M of them..

 

[Bugsy McGurk]

Sounds good in theory. But don't lose sight of who we're dealing with.

Remember, there are 73M of them..

Yup, but most of them are in the red states. They can wallow in their misery.

 

[write on]

Yup, but most of them are in the red states. They can wallow in their misery.

One positive is that we can save money by getting them off the teats of blue states that support them.

Win! Win!