Getting the TRUTH and HONESTY out of a "ban abortion" supporter...is like pulling teeth. Only takes ONE question to get them stammering and/or contradicting themselves....or painting themselves as totalitarians.
Oh please. In the time I've been visiting here, I've noticed you imagining stammering and self contradiction by others on a number of topics. Often, to make your case, you rely on half quotes, in some cases, so out of context that you don't even quote the whole sentence. You also present these arguments with circular logic. I think you want people to explain their view to you so you can find that one sentence out of context and use it for support as you relegate opinions to either A or B. In this case, disparity or totalitarianism. You've defined the parameters. It's a completely transparent tactic. Must be about as fulfilling as cheating on a board game.
And actually, it's
you that can't allow another's point of view to reach your cerebral cortex. You're certainly bright enough to process what's being said to you, but you can't allow certain facts into the conversation because your house of cards falls apart if you do. Not that you'd have to agree with that point of view, but you won't ever accept what's being told to you if it messes with that prefabricated catch-22 you manufacture. It's really too bad, because abortion is a very serious issue. The topic shouldn't be reduced to fun and games on a message board.
You display your tactic right here.....You said.."Getting the TRUTH and HONESTY out of a "ban abortion" supporter...is like pulling teeth. Only takes ONE question to get them stammering and/or
contradicting themselves....or painting themselves as totalitarians."
Your top post says this...."77% want abortion kept LEGAL in some or all circumstances.
Which is all that matters....and is the essence of being "pro-choice"."
This is you trying to enlighten prolifers who think abortion should be left legal to the Gordofact that they're really prochoice. You've said this stuff before. I've seen you try to corner Barbella with it.
But then, when Julie says this:"what that tells us is that most people who describe themselves as pro-life still respect the choice of others.....which is actually pretty decent of them. "
you say this in response to her:
"which is the essence of choice. Be as "pro-life" as YOU want to be...just don't impose your belief on others."
According to you,one minute, the prolifer who says to leave abortion legal is really prochoice. And the next minute, you recognize that these people are prolife. Turns out those folks aren't so much hypocrites as they are decent afterall.....according to you and Julie.
There's a couple of big, big elephants on the table here, Gordon. I know you and I have talked about them before, but you have and probably always will do your best to ignore them. Because, again, if you admit them into the conversation, your whole "disparity" theory falls apart.
ONE.....When abortion was illegal in states, women were at greatrt risk for injury and death. ONLY because these flunkies would offer the service. They certainly weren't the only ones. But there was a call for them. The 'back alley' abortionists as both sides refer to it, is what I'm talking about. People don't want to see those people resurface again. The sad fact is, though, that while there is no call for the back room premed flunkout anymore, monsters are still here and doing business. RVW didn't get rid of the mentality that allows someone to injure women. It just moved that mentality from the back alleys to the Main Street and gave these people license to put up signs and advertising. Pro abortion lobbyists actually work to protect them. Those abortionists who do hurt women (beyond killing their children) work right alongside the ones who try not to.
We are getting that fact out. Everytime a clinic is closed or cited for safety, neglect, abuse violations, we're using that to illustrate the fact and to gain support for the legislation pertaining to clinic operations and safety that you guys like to cite as evidence of the 'war on women". Many on your side of the issue are more incensed with creating resentment for a political party than stopping to look at the facts of what has been done to women in some of these places and asking ...what can we do to keep them safer?
So people who are thoroughly disgusted by abortion because they know it's the destruction of an innocent human life, don't want mothers to die either. So they find themselves saying let's keep it legal for the sake of women who would otherwise find themselves in those back rooms getting mutilated.
If you admit that to yourself, you then might have to surrender the old pro abortion talking point about horrible anti-abortion people who want to see women punished or hurt in some way for either being pregnant outside of marriage, or for choosing an abortion. And you're not gonna do that. Afterall, the 'war on women" needs rhetoric.
Two, We don't live in the fifties, sixties and early seventies anymore where an out of marriage pregnancy was such a social stigma. where a boss could fire a woman for being pregnant(married or not), fire her for having to stay home for two months after delivery, where a landlord could evict a woman for having a child. The urgency that brought women to those back rooms is not there anymore. Except for those who are so terrified of having their lives ruined and being punished with a baby, that they are feeling that they have to save their lives and do the "merciful" thing and kill their babies . But where do those ideas come from? You guys. If abortion was illegal, it's not the old stigmas and troubles that unmarried moms used to face that used to send women to the back rooms. It's the mentality you guys foster about doom, gloom, horrible lives for both mom and baby, about pregnancy centers, etc...that would scare them back there.
We deal with the fallout of what the abortion people created. There's no switch to flip that would put girls and women wise overnight to the BS that came from your side: "It's okay to have sex as soon as you want to". "It's not a baby. It's a clump of tissue." "There are no side affects to abortion." "There are no lasting emotional affects unless you have a mental health issue beforehand" "You'll live in poverty. Your child will suffer because of your selfishness if you have it". "Consider the quality of life." "Your parents don't understand" "your parents will kill you."
Some prolifers that say "keep it legal" so mothers don't die because it takes time to get the truth out. It's never been part of the prolife philosophy that anyone should die or suffer injury. That's actually what we fight AGAINST. Many of these prolifers are also doing what they can to get that truth about abortion out. What it is, what happens to the child, what other options are, what help is available, what some mothers do suffer afterward, the fact that children don't make you less, goals and dreams are still realized. They also push for the legislation that would protect women a bit more in the clinics. Again, that "war on women" legislation.
It's alot of BS the abortion people put out there to wade through and shovel away at, but we're doing it and finding ourselves in more and more company as people hear the truth . Meanwhile, what happens to the people we haven't reached yet?
It only takes one question to get us stammering and contradicting ourselves? If you really believe that, you're just flattering yourself.
