Your religous beliefs do not trump mine.

[Doubter]

I am a Christian who believes that gay marriage is consistent with christianity. I note that numerous christian denominations perform religous marriage ceremonies for same sex couples. Both my and their religous beliefs are protected from the majority passing discrimantory laws banning my religous beliefs, including those about marriage between consenting and loving adults. You don't have an argument or religous belief which trumps mine. You can do in your church what you want regarding marriage. And so can I. The time of discrimination is ending. I'm not gay. But I don't have to be to understand what liberty and religous freedom are.

 

[NightSwimmer]

Attempting to paint the same sex marriage issue as a religious issue is merely a red herring. It is probably best to simply ignore those who make such arguments. Marriage is a legal issue. Any religious aspects of marriage are tangential and irrelevant to the debate over whether homosexual couples should be allowed to enter into a legal marriage contract. You'll only hear religious arguments from those who understand that their opposition to same sex marriage amounts to bigoted discrimination and that they have no legitimate legal argument to proffer in opposition to treating homosexuals as first class citizens of our nation.

 

[Friday13]

Absolutely agree. Thanx, RKD.

 

[Barbella]

I agree completely. Everyone is free to believe whatever they want to.

 

[JuliefromOhio]

religicons are all in a tizzy about what they perceive as a threat to traditional marriage, yet they have no problem with those in their ranks who actually misuse traditional marriage......like Limbaugh and his 4 wives, Gingrich and his 3 wives, Guiliani and his 3 wives, etc.

 

[JackDallas]

No Christian denomination performs marriages for same-sex couples. You are obviously woefully ignorant of Christian theology and scripture.

I am a Christian who believes that gay marriage is consistent with christianity. I note that numerous christian denominations perform religous marriage ceremonies for same sex couples. Both my and their religous beliefs are protected from the majority passing discrimantory laws banning my religous beliefs, including those about marriage between consenting and loving adults. You don't have an argument or religous belief which trumps mine. You can do in your church what you want regarding marriage. And so can I. The time of discrimination is ending. I'm not gay. But I don't have to be to understand what liberty and religous freedom are.

 

[wobblies]

Did you see that piece on TRMS about Republican legislative leaders in a southern state trying to pass a law about a state religion?

 

[Jen]

As long as nobody forces a church to perform gay marriages within their walls so as not to hurt anyone's feelings I'm fine with gay marriages being legal and held in churches that welcome them.
I am also a Christian that believes that I am not in a position pass judgement on gay marriages. If my gay friends get married and I am invited to the ceremony I will attend.

I have no problem with gay marriage being legal. But I would have a problem with any law regarding the forcing of all churches to be open to performing gay marriages whether the people of that church want them or not. Christians aren't just cookie-cutter images of each other, and nobody's beliefs trump those of another.

 

[Jen]

I know of a Presbyterian church in Colorado that has a Lesbian Pastor and I am guessing that she would hold a gay wedding in her church.

No Christian denomination performs marriages for same-sex couples. You are obviously woefully ignorant of Christian theology and scripture.

 

[Barbella]

Precisely, Jen. Well said.

 

[JuliefromOhio]

As long as nobody forces a church to perform gay marriages within their walls so as not to hurt anyone's feelings I'm fine with gay marriages being legal and held in churches that welcome them.
I am also a Christian that believes that I am not in a position pass judgement on gay marriages. If my gay friends get married and I am invited to the ceremony I will attend.

I have no problem with gay marriage being legal. But I would have a problem with any law regarding the forcing of all churches to be open to performing gay marriages whether the people of that church want them or not. Christians aren't just cookie-cutter images of each other, and nobody's beliefs trump those of another.

why would that trouble you, and why did you neglect to mention other religions like Judaism or Islam?

 

[Zoar]

Republicans/Right Wingers LOVE to venerate the Founding Fathers (Colonial Leaders) and claim them as their own.

Well, the Colonies were getting their arses kicked, so General Washington hired General von Steuben to help train and lead the fledging Colonial army.

He turned the tide, this von Steuben.

Right Wingers should get all teary-eyed and puffy chested because von Steuben was a major reason why the Colonists turned this around and began to kick some Brit Butt.

von Steuben was GAY!

Poor Republicans/ Right Wingers.

You wouldn't be here as Americans if it wasn't for a GAY GUY.

Deal with it. Put your big BOY (sized 58) pants on and deal with reality.

GAY people exist and deserve every right, liberty and right the rest of us do. And von Steuben did a great deal to make America possible. Deal with it, Right Wingers.

 

[Jen]

The top post referred to Christianity and I stayed on topic.

why would that trouble you, and why did you neglect to mention other religions like Judaism or Islam?

 

[Doubter]

Marriage is a three-party contract between two natural persons of legal capacity (which would except minors and incompetents, but not necessarily persons of the same sex) and the state, which acknowledges its consent to the marriage contract through the issuance of a license. Few persons realize that the state is a party to their marriage until they want to get divorced, which they consider a great inconvenience, not to mention the legal expense. However, the state has a legitimate, even compelling, interest in the incidents of the marriage, i.e., marital property rights, custody and care of minor children (whether born of the union or adopted), and obligations of support; which issues are subject to the jurisdiction of the several states based upon the parties’ residence or domicile.

It should be noted that there is no express provision in the Constitution granting a person the right of marriage; not that the framers thought marriage unimportant, but rather it is a right retained by the people under the Ninth Amendment, and power reserved to the several states or to the people under the Tenth Amendment. Marriage is strictly a matter of state (not federal) law. Each state has the sovereign power to enact laws governing marriage; and provided that such laws do not infringe upon a citizen’s rights under the Fourteenth Amendment, they are valid and enforceable. See, e.g., Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967). It is the recent instances of states recognizing same-sex marriage that has prompted the move to amend the Constitution to provide a definition of marriage as between a man and a woman; which would be an intrusion on states’ rights to govern marriage, and an unwarranted limitation on the liberty of the people provided by law.

The problem, perhaps, is the failure to differentiate between marriage as a religious rite, and its place as a secular institution of society. In this regard, efforts to legislate the morality of marriage will not add to its sanctity, and only detract from its social purpose by making a federal case out of it.

I think from a contractual point of view there is even less justification for discrimination and the lack of portability of the marriage contract across state lines. A properly issued contract and license by one state should have validity in any state.

 

[Doubter]

No Christian denomination performs marriages for same-sex couples. You are obviously woefully ignorant of Christian theology and scripture.

Jack. You need to do better research, and maybe meditate on how cognitive dissonance may be filtering information which might be pertinent. Pay attention. The 2005 Statement of the 25th United Church of Christ Synod supporting marriage policies "that do not discriminate Based on the gender of the couple" for congregations of that denomination would be a good place to start. Many denominations decide that question at the parish or congregation. There are old denominations like the Church of Norway that fully supports and perform same sex marriages. It's the 21st century Jack We have Google. No reason to be uninformed.

 

[Doubter]

Did you see that piece on TRMS about Republican legislative leaders in a southern state trying to pass a law about a state religion?

No. I didn't. But sadly, it is no more difficult to imagine than it is to imagine North Carolina Republicans trying to pass a law which said the USSC didn't have the power to rule on the constitutionality of state laws. Which they are also actually trying to do. I still haven't gotten an answer to the question of whether their universe also has the same weather as ours does.

 

[Days]

You kind of wrap up religion, democracy, and faith altogether in that burrito...

but those are 3 very different disciplines.

 

[Gramps]

Interpreting Jack's views is difficult at times.

I shouldn't assume things but in his case it's a safe bet. I think what Jack means that in his view NO christian church provides such services, basing that on his beliefs of what a christian is.

I have known several christians in my lifetime who I thought were sonsa+++you know whats, but that's my opinion. Just because one of them in particular treated his wife like dirt because as he explained, "the bible says she's dirt seemed reason enough for me to doubt his credibility as a christian. "Wives are supposed to serve men, not men serve them." he would say if he was accused of mistreating his wife. In his mind making her walk fifty yards to open the drivway gate while he sat on his ass in his pickup truck everytime he left or returned home wasn't mistreating her. It was her duty. We all packed lunches for our midshift meal in those days and if he wasn't happy with what his wife put in his lunch pail he'd say he'd beat her ass when he got home and most of us believed he would and did but to him it was no big deal.

Religion is probably the most misinterpreted thing in life. It's what believers want it to be.

I'm an atheist. It's what I choose to be. I havn't since my days as an innocent child bought into religious rules and regs, ever since I discovered that Jesus probably didn't love everyone simply because there are lots of [Unwelcome language removed] in this world he couldn't love no matter how he tried. He was, according to the scriptures, a tempermental man which his actions illustrate when he returned to the temple and discovered it was turned into a flea market. Still, I don't deny he lived or second guess what his motives were but I'd probably got along pretty well with the guy if I'd lived back then because I am a "to each his own" individual. And I seriously doubt he'd have faulted me for not believing even half as much as modern day critics of atheists do. He'd more likely had ask God to forgive me for the fool he thought I was.

Gramps

Jack. You need to do better research, and maybe meditate on how cognitive dissonance may be filtering information which might be pertinent. Pay attention. The 2005 Statement of the 25th United Church of Christ Synod supporting marriage policies "that do not discriminate Based on the gender of the couple" for congregations of that denomination would be a good place to start. Many denominations decide that question at the parish or congregation. There are old denominations like the Church of Norway that fully supports and perform same sex marriages. It's the 21st century Jack We have Google. No reason to be uninformed.

 

[JackDallas]

I know of a Presbyterian church in Colorado that has a Lesbian Pastor and I am guessing that she would hold a gay wedding in her church.

Then that churche has deviated from Christian theology and has fallen into apostacy.

 

[ARMCX1]

Good post.