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It sadly looks like we will exceed projections...

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
...as far as unemployment goes.

Roughly 6.6 million Americans applied for unemployment in the past week, according to data released by the Department of Labor on Thursday.

The new data is significantly higher than economists’ expectations, who predicted around 5 million lost jobs, according to the Wall Street Journal. For the past three weeks, more than 16 million people have filed for unemployment, largely due to coronavirus-related business closures.



Looks like our squeezing self-imposed sanctions might do more harm than good in the long run.

If employers can't pay rent, they can't pay debt interest to the banks, and then the banks can't pay their investors, and..

Collapse... Great Depression style.

Oh well, at least...
A. We felt good doing it
B. We saved 10,000 lives on the front end while inevitably causing 100 times more to be lost after the crash
C. Our governors got a lot of anti-Trump media face time and planted seeds for presidential runs in 20204.

Ah yes.. I feel better now.

I sure hope that doesn't happen.
 

now_what

Mayor
Supporting Member
...as far as unemployment goes.

Roughly 6.6 million Americans applied for unemployment in the past week, according to data released by the Department of Labor on Thursday.

The new data is significantly higher than economists’ expectations, who predicted around 5 million lost jobs, according to the Wall Street Journal. For the past three weeks, more than 16 million people have filed for unemployment, largely due to coronavirus-related business closures.



Looks like our squeezing self-imposed sanctions might do more harm than good in the long run.

If employers can't pay rent, they can't pay debt interest to the banks, and then the banks can't pay their investors, and..

Collapse... Great Depression style.

Oh well, at least...
A. We felt good doing it
B. We saved 10,000 lives on the front end while inevitably causing 100 times more to be lost after the crash
C. Our governors got a lot of anti-Trump media face time and planted seeds for presidential runs in 20204.

Ah yes.. I feel better now.

I sure hope that doesn't happen.
Lives > Economy
 

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
Lives > Economy
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive.

Do you honestly think crashing the economy won't cause massive lives lost? Do you not care about those people?

Let's look at the the overall health, not just at the next meal. A calculated rational reply trumps an emotional appeal every time. You're giving an emotional appeal. It works with the media, but boy do you come up short in considering all the factors.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive.

Do you honestly think crashing the economy won't cause massive lives lost? Do you not care about those people?

Let's look at the the overall health, not just at the next meal. A calculated rational reply trumps an emotional appeal every time. You're giving an emotional appeal. It works with the media, but boy do you come up short in considering all the factors.
Millions of deaths and a collapsed hospital system is not exactly the recipe for an economic rebound. And that’s exactly what would have happened without the mitigation measures taken to date.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
China is winning their bio-war and buying America and Europe also.
 

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
Millions of deaths and a collapsed hospital system is not exactly the recipe for an economic rebound. And that’s exactly what would have happened without the mitigation measures taken to date.
We can try to out-death each other all day until we're blue in the face. That's part of the problem here.

Models of what would have happened had we done X are going to be wayyyy off. The scale of predictions are gigantic to the realm of pointless. "This could cause anywhere between 50,000 and 500,000 deaths"?

Well, thank you Mr. model and media outlet, but that's a big difference. What good does that do?

However, I would say that your prediction of "millions of deaths" from the virus if we didn't quarantine isn't irrational but is technically unproven, while my prediction of mass death from economic collapse has happened repeatedly throughout history.

There's a balance here, and it seems like the left is all in on doing what they can to save people from COVID, even if it means causing a catastrophic collapse that would kill far more than it saved.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
...as far as unemployment goes.

Roughly 6.6 million Americans applied for unemployment in the past week, according to data released by the Department of Labor on Thursday.

The new data is significantly higher than economists’ expectations, who predicted around 5 million lost jobs, according to the Wall Street Journal. For the past three weeks, more than 16 million people have filed for unemployment, largely due to coronavirus-related business closures.



Looks like our squeezing self-imposed sanctions might do more harm than good in the long run.

If employers can't pay rent, they can't pay debt interest to the banks, and then the banks can't pay their investors, and..

Collapse... Great Depression style.

Oh well, at least...
A. We felt good doing it
B. We saved 10,000 lives on the front end while inevitably causing 100 times more to be lost after the crash
C. Our governors got a lot of anti-Trump media face time and planted seeds for presidential runs in 20204.

Ah yes.. I feel better now.

I sure hope that doesn't happen.
Trump claims to be an expert on communicable diseases and says he "amazed" the doctors with his vast knowledge. He whines that the governors think he is their shipping clerk, but offers aid to North Korea.

Whatever damage done to Trump's re-election campaign was done by Trump himself.
 

voyager

4Q2247365
My local news this morning said the first 60 million stimulus deposits were due to start arriving in bank deposits today.
 

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
Trump claims to be an expert on communicable diseases and says he "amazed" the doctors with his vast knowledge. He whines that the governors think he is their shipping clerk, but offers aid to North Korea.

Whatever damage done to Trump's re-election campaign was done by Trump himself.
Trump is no expert, on that we can agree. I don't think he claimed to be, and he might have exceeded the doctors knowledge... but the two aren't the same thing. You can quote him as saying he's an expert, or perhaps you tried to conflate the two.

And while Trump at times says stuff that I either disagree with or think it's the absolute wrong look, he thankfully has probably the weakest candidate in US American history to run against.

I think even you can admit that Biden, the person, isn't a good candidate. It doesn't mean he's doomed, or is a meanie... but he's not what Trump isnt'... he's not some young, intelligent whippersnapper (which the Democrats try to represent themselves as).
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
My local news this morning said the first 60 million stimulus deposits were due to start arriving in bank deposits today.
We are in the middle of applying for financing in case this goes on much longer. It is an amazing cluster f*ck. The banks point at the government for not providing adequate direction and the government points fingers at the banks for not moving fast enough. We've been told by Wells Fargo that they are overwhelmed and have stopped accepting applications for the paycheck program, but we were one of the first to apply. They told us as a plan B to apply with other banks. Chase and BofA say "You must have had a checking account with us in early February to qualify". We currently have probably 4 employees with decreased hours because of the virus, but we have 17 who were part timers and went home when the college closed for the semester....We aren't sure if those part timers would qualify or if we have to bring them back to work...and we don't know what we'd have them do if they did come back. Not enough business to keep everybody busy.

So for everyone who bitches about Pelosi not moving fast enough to pass the legislation...the bottom line is that they should have taken longer and thought through how they'd do this. Does anyone remember "Shovel ready"? It just isn't as simple as shoveling money out the door.
 

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
We are in the middle of applying for financing in case this goes on much longer. It is an amazing cluster f*ck. The banks point at the government for not providing adequate direction and the government points fingers at the banks for not moving fast enough. We've been told by Wells Fargo that they are overwhelmed and have stopped accepting applications for the paycheck program, but we were one of the first to apply. They told us as a plan B to apply with other banks. Chase and BofA say "You must have had a checking account with us in early February to qualify". We currently have probably 4 employees with decreased hours because of the virus, but we have 17 who were part timers and went home when the college closed for the semester....We aren't sure if those part timers would qualify or if we have to bring them back to work...and we don't know what we'd have them do if they did come back. Not enough business to keep everybody busy.

So for everyone who bitches about Pelosi not moving fast enough to pass the legislation...the bottom line is that they should have taken longer and thought through how they'd do this. Does anyone remember "Shovel ready"? It just isn't as simple as shoveling money out the door.
Well she's going to lead the charge to block small business relief today.. because she needs to shove her own pork into the bill.

I'm sure the people who need the relief appreciate that, and I'm sure we all are inspired by such acts of positive activism, giving constant ultimatums and holds in a time of crisis.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Trump is no expert, on that we can agree. I don't think he claimed to be, and he might have exceeded the doctors knowledge... but the two aren't the same thing. You can quote him as saying he's an expert, or perhaps you tried to conflate the two.

And while Trump at times says stuff that I either disagree with or think it's the absolute wrong look, he thankfully has probably the weakest candidate in US American history to run against.

I think even you can admit that Biden, the person, isn't a good candidate. It doesn't mean he's doomed, or is a meanie... but he's not what Trump isnt'... he's not some young, intelligent whippersnapper (which the Democrats try to represent themselves as).
'Maybe I should have been a doctor': Trump brags about his 'natural ability' for science because of his 'super genius uncle' who was an MIT professor and claims CDC officials ask him how he knows so much about the coronavirus



I have met Biden and had the opportunity, along with maybe 30 or so veterans, to talk to him about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I've mentioned a number of times that I had a beer with Wesley Clark. His comment was that what it took to get the job wasn't what it took to do the job. You may think Biden isn't a good candidate. His stutter does get in the way of off the cuff comments. His ability to be president is not a problem, in my view. Trump has proven he sucks at the job, no matter how good he is at being a candidate.
 
However, I would say that your prediction of "millions of deaths" from the virus if we didn't quarantine isn't irrational but is technically unproven, while my prediction of mass death from economic collapse has happened repeatedly throughout history.
You got a model that shows how deaths of despair we can expect from social distancing?
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
We can try to out-death each other all day until we're blue in the face. That's part of the problem here.

Models of what would have happened had we done X are going to be wayyyy off. The scale of predictions are gigantic to the realm of pointless. "This could cause anywhere between 50,000 and 500,000 deaths"?

Well, thank you Mr. model and media outlet, but that's a big difference. What good does that do?

However, I would say that your prediction of "millions of deaths" from the virus if we didn't quarantine isn't irrational but is technically unproven, while my prediction of mass death from economic collapse has happened repeatedly throughout history.

There's a balance here, and it seems like the left is all in on doing what they can to save people from COVID, even if it means causing a catastrophic collapse that would kill far more than it saved.
It’s basic mathematics.

The latest data show that 20% of those infected require hospitalization to survive. If we just let the contagion run wild nearly all Americans would be infected quite quickly. There are 350 million people here. Let’s say “only” 200 million were infected. 20% of that number is 40 million people. If the health care system collapsed, and it clearly would if all those people required hospitalization in a matter of weeks, that’s 40 million deaths.

And just think about how many people would want to rejoin the workforce under such conditions. Not too many. It would be Russian Roulette, not to mention all the corpses one would have to step over (or bulldoze into trenches).

You think that scenario is preferable to mitigating the contagion?
 

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
'Maybe I should have been a doctor': Trump brags about his 'natural ability' for science because of his 'super genius uncle' who was an MIT professor and claims CDC officials ask him how he knows so much about the coronavirus


Okay, let's break this down.

"Maybe I should have been a doctor"... I can see how it might have lightly rubbed the sensitive the wrong way.

However, did CDC officials ask him how he knew so much? Maybe they did, did you consider that?.

He never said he was an expert there. Sure, he's braggy, but that's Trump's manner, fault, and appeal. So was Obama in his own way, I think most presidents are. They claim things they aren't. This is nothing to be shocked about.

It appears your busted trying to claim Trump said something when he never said what you're claiming he said. You're connect A to D while ignoring B and C.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
'Maybe I should have been a doctor': Trump brags about his 'natural ability' for science because of his 'super genius uncle' who was an MIT professor and claims CDC officials ask him how he knows so much about the coronavirus



I have met Biden and had the opportunity, along with maybe 30 or so veterans, to talk to him about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I've mentioned a number of times that I had a beer with Wesley Clark. His comment was that what it took to get the job wasn't what it took to do the job. You may think Biden isn't a good candidate. His stutter does get in the way of off the cuff comments. His ability to be president is not a problem, in my view. Trump has proven he sucks at the job, no matter how good he is at being a candidate.
One thing we know about Biden - he would appoint competent people to run the government. As opposed to Trump’s revolving door of incompetent stooges.
 

Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
You may think Biden isn't a good candidate. His stutter does get in the way of off the cuff comments. His ability to be president is not a problem, in my view. Trump has proven he sucks at the job, no matter how good he is at being a candidate.
That's the thing, saying someone isn't a good candidate isn't a slight. I don't think truly through-and-through respectful, kind, honest, and nice people can ever succeed in politics.

I'm looking at the political optics. The leftist media, academics, and radical Democrats say half of the country supports a group of old, racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic white males. Quite a unifying premise. And yet, their candidate is an old white guy who has racial gaffes, sexual assault violations (which are suddenly NOT a disqualifier), and is proven to lie a bunch, which is also suddenly not a big deal. A presidential candidate lying doesn't make Biden special, it makes him just like all the others.

I'm sure Biden is pleasant to meet and talk to. I don't hate him, I just have to not only acknowledge his faults, as I've done with Trump, but also notice the massive shift from the left in what is acceptable.

Support for Biden largely proves a complete hypocracy from so many leftists.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
That's the thing, saying someone isn't a good candidate isn't a slight. I don't think truly through-and-through respectful, kind, honest, and nice people can ever succeed in politics.

I'm looking at the political optics. The leftist media, academics, and radical Democrats say half of the country supports a group of old, racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic white males. Quite a unifying premise. And yet, their candidate is an old white guy who has racial gaffes, sexual assault violations (which are suddenly NOT a disqualifier), and is proven to lie a bunch, which is also suddenly not a big deal. A presidential candidate lying doesn't make Biden special, it makes him just like all the others.

I'm sure Biden is pleasant to meet and talk to. I don't hate him, I just have to not only acknowledge his faults, as I've done with Trump, but also notice the massive shift from the left in what is acceptable.

Support for Biden largely proves a complete hypocracy from so many leftists.
1. Biden has a single accusation of a sexual assault. She has chosen to make an accusation and nothing more. It might hold more weight if she filed a civil suit.

2. "Racial gaffes"? You mean his comment about Obama being well spoken and clean? Even Obama didn't have a problem with that....clean meant no baggage.

3. "proven to lie a bunch"? Sorry...his mis-remembering when something happened, like meeting with the Parkland kids is no big deal. It wasn't a lie, he did meet with them, but not when he was VP. The meeting he was thinking of was Sandy Hook.

That is hardly the same as Trump's blatant lies or the evidence that his value system stinks out loud.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Okay, let's break this down.

"Maybe I should have been a doctor"... I can see how it might have lightly rubbed the sensitive the wrong way.

However, did CDC officials ask him how he knew so much? Maybe they did, did you consider that?.

He never said he was an expert there. Sure, he's braggy, but that's Trump's manner, fault, and appeal. So was Obama in his own way, I think most presidents are. They claim things they aren't. This is nothing to be shocked about.

It appears your busted trying to claim Trump said something when he never said what you're claiming he said. You're connect A to D while ignoring B and C.
You should have read the link:

‘I like this stuff. I really get it.
‘People are surprised that I understand it.
'Every one of these doctors said: "How do you know so much about this?"

Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.'


do you really think "Every one" of the doctors asked that question?
When did Obama brag about something comparable.
 
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