Judge says teachers can be fired for letting students question Holocaust

[make speed limit 45]

All liberals are like this - " I oppose censorship unless there's a good reason for it."

History Teacher Fired For Allowing Students To Question "Holocaust" Loses Lawsuit On Appeal

Jason Mostafa Ali, a New Jersey history teacher of Egyptian descent, had his appeal in a lawsuit alleging discrimination at the hands of the principal at his school tossed out of federal court. The dispute began in 2017, when Woodbridge High School's Jewish principal Glenn Lottman lobbied local...

national-justice.com

apr 26 2020 Jason Mostafa Ali, a New Jersey history teacher of Egyptian descent, had his appeal in a lawsuit alleging discrimination at the hands of the principal at his school tossed out of federal court.

The dispute began in 2017, when Woodbridge High School's Jewish principal Glenn Lottman lobbied local Superintendant Robert Zega to have him fired.

Zega and Lottman terminated Ali after he allowed students in the class to question the Holocaust and whether the Mossad aided Al Qaeda during the 9/11 terror attacks.

The students were questioning the Holocaust and the legacy of Hitler on their own. Ali only encouraged the students to engage in critical thinking without ideological input.

Public schools supposedly protect the First Amendment, yet in this case, Ali was punished for merely allowing the students to read their papers outloud.

One of the papers was based on the documentary "Adolf Hitler: The Greatest Story Never Told," showing just how far revisionists have come in impacting the debate over the Second World War. An English teacher overheard it being discussed and informed on Ali and his students to adminiistrators.

After being interrogated by Zega and Lottman on why he didn't punish the students for "denying" the Holocaust, Ali affirmed the right to question everything. He was then fired.

During his trial, Ali argued that he had a First Amendment right to set his own lesson plans, and his students had a right to examine history from whatever perspective they saw having the most compelling evidence. The Judge in the case, Madeline Cox Arleo, said he did not and Lottmann had a right to fire him.

 

[EatTheRich]

Just as a teacher would be properly fired for letting students question safety procedures in the chemistry lab.

 

[reason10]

All liberals are like this - " I oppose censorship unless there's a good reason for it."

This is idiotic on so many fronts that it's hard to know where to begin. One thing for certain, I now know how New Jersey could elect such idiot Democrats to run the state. The schools are about as piss poor as it gets. Apparently it doesn't take a whole lot of requirements to graduate high school up there.

1. Here in Florida, where I'm convinced we have the best education system in America, THERE ISN'T ANY TIME TO PLAY THESE GRABASTIC GAMES ABOUT DENYING THE HOLOCAUST or any other crap. The kids have to have a certain stack of credits, and have to take certain tests (FSA, et al) just to be able to graduate. I've subbed for many high school level social studies classes and I can attest: THERE ISN'T TIME FOR THIS.

2. Here in Florida, the teachers are under the gun (about this time of the year, if the Pelosi Virus hadn't shut everything down) to get their 11th and 12th grade students on a path of either graduation, graduation and college placement or a certificate of completion. And the teachers PUSH for college.

3. Do students come up with some dumbass sheet like this on their own? Of course, They are basically a bunch of Democrats who haven't grown any brains yet. But you're not going to see SATs where there are questions on whether the Holocaust actually took place.

4. Perhaps in Critical Thinking Classes, an issue like this might come up. It might piss off some of the students. I've subbed for many Critical Thinking classes. Never saw anything like denying the Holocaust. In any event, Social Studies would be a required course for graduation whereas Critical Thinking would be considered an elective.

5. If that teacher had submitted a Social Studies lesson plan like that one to the Principal of pretty much any Florida high school, the principal would have told him to knock it off and choose one according to Florida's graduation standards.

This is not a First Amendment issue. A teacher does not OWN the school. A teacher is an EMPLOYEE of the school and has to teach according to the direction of the principal.

If you have any doubts about this, let's get out of the political and get into the practical. Go to Google Classroom and do a search for the social studies sector. See if there is any critical thinking program for Holocaust denial. (I mentioned Google Classroom, because right now it's being used for distance learning, at least in Florida Schools.)

 

[make speed limit 45]

Just as a teacher would be properly fired for letting students question safety procedures in the chemistry lab.

Please. Now you're embarrassing ME.

 

[make speed limit 45]

This is not a First Amendment issue. A teacher does not OWN the school. A teacher is an EMPLOYEE of the school and has to teach according to the direction of the principal.

BS. If a principal said teachers cannot discuss abortion in the classroom and a teacher told the class she supported abortion, you libs would scream if the teach was fired.

 

[reason10]

BS. If a principal said teachers cannot discuss abortion in the classroom and a teacher told the class she supported abortion, you libs would scream if the teach was fired.

You should know by now that I'm about as liberal as Rush Limbaugh. I don't say these things from any political persuasion. That is the cancer that is eating our public school system. Politics needs to be kept OUT of public schools. I say these things from experience. I work in the system.

The Principal is the king and exalted ruler of the school. He/she can be held accountable for the graduating class of his school and can be given a raise or fired. A regular teacher might not know this, but a sub sees a lot of schools and learns it quickly. Each separate school is almost a separate country in its culture, its way of doing things. It's ALL up to the principal.

For the most part, Principals do not interfere with class instruction. One exception conservatives like you and I would agree with.

Joe Louis Clark, the tough minded principal of Eastside High, starting in 1982. You might remember the movie with Morgan Freeman "Stand By Me." I read his book. What the movie never brought out was the fact that Clark solved most of the schools problems during the summer, before the first classes began. He demanded lesson plans which he carefully scrutinized individually. He required a dress code for the teachers (who at the time were dressing like they lived in a ghetto.) On the first day of school, he made them stand outside the doors of their classrooms and hold the doors open for the students. He ran those teachers like he was Sgt. Hartman of Full Metal Jacket.

The school was failing. He fixed it.

I have been working in the system since 1991 and I've been working for the best schools in the United States. Yes, I've seen some political correctness along the way. (In one ghetto middle school, I saw a poster on the wall demanding that we respect diversity as far as our use of pronouns. Nobody's perfect.)

Truthfully, Common Core Math is probably the biggest embarrassment of the system. I would get rid of it in a heartbeat.

In blue states like Jersey or New York, I can't speak for their inferior school systems. But we know they are inferior because they stupidly keep electing Democrats to public office. To me that's GOT to be a failure of the school system in those states.

 

[middleview]

All liberals are like this - " I oppose censorship unless there's a good reason for it."

Are you kidding? A history teacher is supposed to teach history, not something from conspiracy central. He clearly has an agenda and that is to encourage anti-American and anti-Israel bullshit.

 

[middleview]

BS. If a principal said teachers cannot discuss abortion in the classroom and a teacher told the class she supported abortion, you libs would scream if the teach was fired.

We are talking about someone teaching a fictional version of history, not expressing personal opinions on a controversial topic. In a subject where debate on political topics is appropriate, abortion would be a legit topic.

 

[middleview]

You should know by now that I'm about as liberal as Rush Limbaugh. I don't say these things from any political persuasion. That is the cancer that is eating our public school system. Politics needs to be kept OUT of public schools. I say these things from experience. I work in the system.

The Principal is the king and exalted ruler of the school. He/she can be held accountable for the graduating class of his school and can be given a raise or fired. A regular teacher might not know this, but a sub sees a lot of schools and learns it quickly. Each separate school is almost a separate country in its culture, its way of doing things. It's ALL up to the principal.

For the most part, Principals do not interfere with class instruction. One exception conservatives like you and I would agree with.

Joe Louis Clark, the tough minded principal of Eastside High, starting in 1982. You might remember the movie with Morgan Freeman "Stand By Me." I read his book. What the movie never brought out was the fact that Clark solved most of the schools problems during the summer, before the first classes began. He demanded lesson plans which he carefully scrutinized individually. He required a dress code for the teachers (who at the time were dressing like they lived in a ghetto.) On the first day of school, he made them stand outside the doors of their classrooms and hold the doors open for the students. He ran those teachers like he was Sgt. Hartman of Full Metal Jacket.

The school was failing. He fixed it.

I have been working in the system since 1991 and I've been working for the best schools in the United States. Yes, I've seen some political correctness along the way. (In one ghetto middle school, I saw a poster on the wall demanding that we respect diversity as far as our use of pronouns. Nobody's perfect.)

Truthfully, Common Core Math is probably the biggest embarrassment of the system. I would get rid of it in a heartbeat.

In blue states like Jersey or New York, I can't speak for their inferior school systems. But we know they are inferior because they stupidly keep electing Democrats to public office. To me that's GOT to be a failure of the school system in those states.

You guys elected criminals like Nixon and Agnew, a moron like Trump and you want to criticize the schools in New Jersey for electing democrats?

 

[Lance Freeman]

We are talking about someone teaching a fictional version of history, not expressing personal opinions on a controversial topic. In a subject where debate on political topics is appropriate, abortion would be a legit topic.

This is not 'a fictional version of history', as you say, just a Zionist version of history. Unfortunately, that is all that is available to students in school; the Zionist version of everything. Schools in the United States are nothing but indoctrination centers, cranking out drooling imbeciles every year, who are incapable of stringing two sentences together---let alone understand that they have been robbed of everything that has any value.

 

[make speed limit 45]

Are you kidding? A history teacher is supposed to teach history, not something from conspiracy central. He clearly has an agenda and that is to encourage anti-American and anti-Israel bullshit.

HAHAHA. Conspiracy theory??? That's what the holocaust is, you %$^^&&. The jews tell us those awful germans murdered 6 million jews just for the hell of it. There is your wackdoodle conspiracy theory.

 

[make speed limit 45]

You guys elected criminals like Nixon and Agnew, a moron like Trump and you want to criticize the schools in New Jersey for electing democrats?

And you elected obama , The Illiterate Kenyan who lied us into obamacare and also gave millions of illegal invaders a card saying they can work even though the LAW says they can't. Nixon is a saint compared to TIK.

 

[middleview]

HAHAHA. Conspiracy theory??? That's what the holocaust is, you %$^^&&. The jews tell us those awful germans murdered 6 million jews just for the hell of it. There is your wackdoodle conspiracy theory.

6 million Jews disappeared into the Russian countryside. They weren't really murdered by the Germans. The pictures of the camps were fake news...There is your wackadoodle conspiracy theory. Thousands and thousands of Jews are lying. Thousands and thousands of American, British and Russian soldiers are lying about having liberated camps where thousands of bodies had to be buried in mass graves and skeletal remains in the ovens were all fake. Figures you'd be another holocaust denier.

 

[middleview]

And you elected obama , The Illiterate Kenyan who lied us into obamacare and also gave millions of illegal invaders a card saying they can work even though the LAW says they can't. Nixon is a saint compared to TIK.

1. The law under which people could request asylum was passed while "W" was in office.
2. DACA did not apply to millions of people.
3. Reagan gave amnesty to millions of people...but that was ok.

What lie did Obama tell that got you into Obamacare? I still have insurance through my employer and that has nothing at all to do with the ACA.

 

[reason10]

You guys elected criminals like Nixon and Agnew, a moron like Trump and you want to criticize the schools in New Jersey for electing democrats?

You guys elected criminals like Clinton, and IDIOTS like the KENYAN SHOESHINE BOY, and you act surprised at how crappy the New Jersey schools are because they elect Democrats?

Nixon was MOTHER THERESA compared to KKK and KENYA.

 

[reason10]

What lie did Obama tell that got you into Obamacare? I still have insurance through my employer and that has nothing at all to do with the ACA.

Here's the lie.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ot-keep-their-health-insurance-flna8C11485678
Obama administration knew millions could not keep their health insurance

 

[reason10]

We are talking about someone teaching a fictional version of history, not expressing personal opinions on a controversial topic. In a subject where debate on political topics is appropriate, abortion would be a legit topic.

Bottom line, the school district picks the textbooks. The school superintendent along with the school board makes that call. The Principal makes the call as to what the lesson plans are going to be. The teachers are just grunts in the system. (That is how they are being treated.) They present a lesson plan approved by the Principal or they get another job. The principal is their employer. A classroom is not a teacher's kingdom.

See, THIS is why Florida is a red state. We have the best schools in the country. And our superior educated students are not stupid enough to elect Democrats. We don't have IDIOT districts where there's time for crap like this. Our students are held to much higher standards for graduation, and there isn't time for idiotic discussions about either holocaust, the one in Germany or Roe v. Wade. Our students have to undergo a lot of tests and have a certain number of credits to graduate.

 

[middleview]

Bottom line, the school district picks the textbooks. The school superintendent along with the school board makes that call. The Principal makes the call as to what the lesson plans are going to be. The teachers are just grunts in the system. (That is how they are being treated.) They present a lesson plan approved by the Principal or they get another job. The principal is their employer. A classroom is not a teacher's kingdom.

See, THIS is why Florida is a red state. We have the best schools in the country. And our superior educated students are not stupid enough to elect Democrats. We don't have IDIOT districts where there's time for crap like this. Our students are held to much higher standards for graduation, and there isn't time for idiotic discussions about either holocaust, the one in Germany or Roe v. Wade. Our students have to undergo a lot of tests and have a certain number of credits to graduate.

but you do elect morons like GW Bush and Donald Trump....

 

[middleview]

What lie did Obama tell that got you into Obamacare? I still have insurance through my employer and that has nothing at all to do with the ACA.

Here's the lie.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ot-keep-their-health-insurance-flna8C11485678
Obama administration knew millions could not keep their health insurance

The insurance companies chose to cancel policies. That is not something Obama could have controlled. The ACA did not force the policy cancellations.

A lot of the policies were rip offs. They were referred to as "mini meds" and came nowhere near being real policies. Others claimed it was because insurance companies were forced to cover maternity or pre-existing conditions. Gee...insurance companies foist scam policies on people? Rather than upgrade the policy, they canceled.

Just like the bogus "if you like your doctor" crap. Nobody lost their doctor.

 

[EatTheRich]

HAHAHA. Conspiracy theory??? That's what the holocaust is, you %$^^&&. The jews tell us those awful germans murdered 6 million jews just for the hell of it. There is your wackdoodle conspiracy theory.

Not “just for the hell of it” ... to protect big-business profits.