A break

[trapdoor]

I'm thinking of taking a break from the forum. I like to have reasoned discussions of issues, where even if I disagree with a person, I learn something.

Lately, the level of discussion here simply hasn't provided that. It's descended into mostly a forum for name calling and finger pointing. You can't have a reasonable discussion about gun control with someone who calls you a "brown shirt." You can't discuss entitlement reform with someone who believes all entitlement programs amount to socialism.

I think that rather than advancing a discussion or attempting through dialog to build a better nation, we've simply become a version of Monty Python's argument clinic (perhaps the first room -- "oh, I'm sorry, you've gotten abuse. Arguments are down the hall).

Maybe its the fact that the dark days of winter have finally arrived, but all this simply makes me tired. I have a friend who defines all such participation in forums as "intellectual wanking" and I'm starting to think he's right.

I haven't surrendered all hope. I'm not certain I will step away from the forum, but I will unless something occurs to invigorate my belief in honest and open discussion, and the innate fairness of the human spirit.

I guess we'll see.

 

[LeRoy_Was_Here]

I don't believe I have EVER called anyone a 'brown shirt', but I was just recently called "a sick [Unwelcome language removed]" here, merely for suggesting that the time had come to have a reasoned discussion about gun control. [That was Alinvegas and his 'contribution' to the debate.] So it goes both ways, Trap.....

 

[trapdoor]

My point exactly.

 

[worldlymrb]

Your right, not all entitlement programs is socialism, but rather old fashioned ponzi schemes.

[video=youtube;RDjCqjzbvJY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDjCqjzbvJY[/video]

 

[worldlymrb]

I don't believe I have EVER called anyone a 'brown shirt', but I was just recently called "a sick <img src=images/smilies/animated/censored.gif>" here, merely for suggesting that the time had come to have a reasoned discussion about gun control. [That was Alinvegas and his 'contribution' to the debate.] So it goes both ways, Trap.....

Of course anyone who believes gun control does not work and is unconstitutional is being unreasonable... right?

 

[trapdoor]

Mr. B, thanks for illuminating the problem. You didn't discuss an issue, you provided an insulting talking point. It's one of the reasons I'm considering stepping away. And yes, I'm capable (as an firm constitutional opponent of Social Security) of discussing why it isn't truly a Ponzi scheme, but not in this thread.

 

[worldlymrb]

Mr. B, thanks for illuminating the problem. You didn't discuss an issue, you provided an insulting talking point. It's one of the reasons I'm considering stepping away. And yes, I'm capable (as an firm constitutional opponent of Social Security) of discussing why it isn't truly a Ponzi scheme, but not in this thread.

What did I say that was insulting?

Or were you insulted when I agreed with you?

 

[GordonGecko]

trap....does "open and honest discussion" ever include....an admission of error?

 

[trapdoor]

trap....does "open and honest discussion" ever include....an admission of error?

Certainly. If you'll go read the thread regarding the mini-gun, I acknowledged I was wrong -- because I didn't think its dates of manufacture would have allowed for any transferable ones to be on the market. My research reveals there are fewer than 10. None have ever been used in a crime.

 

[Yuri Zhivago]

I'm thinking of taking a break from the forum. I like to have reasoned discussions of issues, where even if I disagree with a person, I learn something.

Lately, the level of discussion here simply hasn't provided that. It's descended into mostly a forum for name calling and finger pointing. You can't have a reasonable discussion about gun control with someone who calls you a "brown shirt." You can't discuss entitlement reform with someone who believes all entitlement programs amount to socialism.

I think that rather than advancing a discussion or attempting through dialog to build a better nation, we've simply become a version of Monty Python's argument clinic (perhaps the first room -- "oh, I'm sorry, you've gotten abuse. Arguments are down the hall).

Maybe its the fact that the dark days of winter have finally arrived, but all this simply makes me tired. I have a friend who defines all such participation in forums as "intellectual wanking" and I'm starting to think he's right.

I haven't surrendered all hope. I'm not certain I will step away from the forum, but I will unless something occurs to invigorate my belief in honest and open discussion, and the innate fairness of the human spirit.

I guess we'll see.

you forgot honesty and intellectual integrity. Just the other day when I asked ,if those automatic weapons capable of killing scores of people in a matter of seconds were available at the time of 2 amendment was written , would there even be the 2 amendment , you pointed to some automatic guns invented in the end of the 19th century way after the 2 amendment.
Look in the mirror, trap

 

[Bluedog]

Trap,

I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately, there are a number of PJ members who would rather attack the poster than the post on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Zoar]

you forgot honesty and intellectual integrity. Just the other day when i asked ,if those automatic weapons capable of killing scores of people in a matter of seconds were available at the time of 2 amendment was written , would there even be the 2 amendment , you pointed to some automatic guns invented in the end of the 19th century way after the 2 amendment.
Look in the mirror, trap

bravo!!!!!!!!

 

[Mytzlplk]

I can't imagine anyone caring, but I do find these kinda posts highly amusing.

thanks for the entertainment, no matter how small or briefly it served as such

 

[worldlymrb]

you forgot honesty and intellectual integrity. Just the other day when I asked ,if those automatic weapons capable of killing scores of people in a matter of seconds were available at the time of 2 amendment was written , would there even be the 2 amendment , you pointed to some automatic guns invented in the end of the 19th century way after the 2 amendment.
Look in the mirror, trap

I guess the reasonable thing to do is repeal the 2nd amendment.

 

[LeRoy_Was_Here]

Social Security is a pyramid scheme....as are virtually ALL pension plans....but it is not a Ponzi scheme. There is a difference. You should try to learn what that difference is.

 

[LeRoy_Was_Here]

Of course anyone who believes gun control does not work and is unconstitutional is being unreasonable... right?

If gun control is "unconstitutional", then why was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban never declared unconstitutional, despite being challenged in court several times? And why was The National Firearms Act of 1938 never declared unconstitutional?

 

[worldlymrb]

Social Security is a pyramid scheme....as are virtually ALL pension plans....but it is not a Ponzi scheme. There is a difference. You should try to learn what that difference is.

I KNOW the difference. Unlike the federal govt who invests its compulsory members contributions into USTs, private pension funds are not allowed to invest pension contributions in their OWN stock/bonds or general fund.

 

[trapdoor]

you forgot honesty and intellectual integrity. Just the other day when I asked ,if those automatic weapons capable of killing scores of people in a matter of seconds were available at the time of 2 amendment was written , would there even be the 2 amendment , you pointed to some automatic guns invented in the end of the 19th century way after the 2 amendment.
Look in the mirror, trap

Re-read the question you provided. You asked about what automatic weapons were available, not at the time of the writing of the Constitution, but in the "19th century" (the Constitution was written in the 18th century). I provided information about automatic weapons available in the 19th century.

 

[worldlymrb]

If gun control is "unconstitutional", then why was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban never declared unconstitutional, despite being challenged in court several times? And why was The National Firearms Act of 1938 never declared unconstitutional?

Why was slavery considered constitutional?

 

[trapdoor]

If gun control is "unconstitutional", then why was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban never declared unconstitutional, despite being challenged in court several times? And why was The National Firearms Act of 1938 never declared unconstitutional?

Give me the style of a single court case that challenged the assault weapons ban. No challenge of the ban was ever heard at the Supreme Court.

For what its worth, I think the law was constitutional before the Heller and MacDonald decisions, but the court has now provided a more rigorous definition of the boundary of individual firearms ownership. In Heller, it said that outright bans of a specific class of weapons do no pass constitutional muster. A reinstituted "assault" weapons ban would be such an ban on a specific class of weapons and would certainly face a tougher time in the court system as a result of these decisions.