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A World Without Work

Max R. said:
1. Correct. However it can be delivered with kindness and without. You specialize in "without".

2. Bullshit. Your constant hatred for "Zionists" is just code for "[Unwelcome language removed] Jews". And why not? Your heroes in the Third Reich hated them too.

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Max R. said:
Needless fear-mongering. For one thing, according to Mitt Romney, 47% are living off the other 53% anyway. Instead of factory workers, engineers and mechanics, we'd have a large population of street musicians, artists and poets living off the government tit. A [Unwelcome language removed] Socialist paradise!
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What these studies are projecting is that in, say, ten years, it might be 65% of the people living off the other 35%; and then, in fifteen years, it might be 80% of the people living off the other 20%. What then, Max? Don't you think the 20% might get just a little bit peeved at having to support the other 80%?

The thrust of the top post----that we are going to have to completely rethink ALL our theories of political economy in the next few decades----is exactly right.
 
LeRoy_Was_Here said:
What these studies are projecting is that in, say, ten years, it might be 65% of the people living off the other 35%; and then, in fifteen years, it might be 80% of the people living off the other 20%. What then, Max? Don't you think the 20% might get just a little bit peeved at having to support the other 80%?

The thrust of the top post----that we are going to have to completely rethink ALL our theories of political economy in the next few decades----is exactly right.
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What are the 20% going to do about it? Say "Let them eat cake?"

Just another reason to support your Second Amendment rights, Leroy.
 
LeRoy_Was_Here said:
I'm not surprised that you're forecasting a bloody revolution, Max.

I'm also not surprised that you don't care at all if that happens.
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Not forecasting, just predicting the outcome of your forecast.

For every path, there is an end result. It doesn't take clairvoyance. Any student of history and psychology/sociology can see various outcomes to different scenarios. Those with money don't need to know this for themselves, they just hire advisers to do it for them.

You mistake being logical and realistic for being uncaring. That's a flaw in your thinking. Of course I care, but I'm a realist who knows the Serenity Prayer.

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LeRoy_Was_Here said:
The thrust of the top post----that we are going to have to completely rethink ALL our theories of political economy in the next few decades----is exactly right.
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I suggest one of the first theories that will require rethinking involves the role profit currently plays in production. As long as a small fraction of "workers" feel entitled to decide how profits are to be distributed, separating subsistence from work will be impossible.
 
georgephillip said:
I suggest one of the first theories that will require rethinking involves the role profit currently plays in production. As long as a small fraction of "workers" feel entitled to decide how profits are to be distributed, separating subsistence from work will be impossible.
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I rather strongly suspect that over the next two decades (or so), we are going to gravitate to the idea of a guaranteed basic annual income....to prevent the kind of revolutionary end result that our 'realist' Max thinks is inevitable. People like Max and Lukey will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into that 'socialist' world, but they will be dragged nonetheless.
 
georgephillip said:
It's coming.
Predictions like 47% of current US jobs at risk of elimination due to automation or Artificial Intelligence mean we are about to confront a dilemma unique in human history: the separation of labor and subsistence.
http://rdwolff.com/content/prof-wolff-david-pakman-show-will-automation-end-full-employment

"The U.S. labor force has been shaped by millennia of technological progress.

"Agricultural technology birthed the farming industry, the industrial revolution moved people into factories, and then globalization and automation moved them back out, giving rise to a nation of services.

"But throughout these reshufflings, the total number of jobs has always increased.

"What may be looming is something different: an era of technological unemployment, in which computer scientists and software engineers essentially invent us out of work, and the total number of jobs declines steadily and permanently.

"This fear is not new.

"The hope that machines might free us from toil has always been intertwined with the fear that they will rob us of our agency.

"In the midst of the Great Depression, the economist John Maynard Keynes forecast that technological progress might allow a 15-hour workweek, and abundant leisure, by 2030."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/world-without-work/395294/

According to the ~10 minute interview with Richard Wolff in the first link, Switzerland and Finland have already begun experimenting with disconnecting work from income.

Voluntary work?

20-25 hours of work per week?

Ready for the Good News?

Mass leisure and the freedom that brings will require suspending the profit motive in human commerce;)
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I fundamentally disagree. Society has come up with new inventions to be more efficient and need less workers since time began yet we still create more and more jobs. My favorite example is blacksmiths. With the invention and proliferation of automobiles, sure we put many blacksmiths out of jobs but the possibilities opened up by the automobile created even more jobs and opportunities.
 
The Thinker said:
I fundamentally disagree. Society has come up with new inventions to be more efficient and need less workers since time began yet we still create more and more jobs. My favorite example is blacksmiths. With the invention and proliferation of automobiles, sure we put many blacksmiths out of jobs but the possibilities opened up by the automobile created even more jobs and opportunities.
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Yes, this was always true in the past. Technological change has USUALLY created more jobs than it destroys. But that may not be true in the future. Artificial intelligence has the potential to displace almost all human workers within the next 20-30 years.
 
LeRoy_Was_Here said:
I rather strongly suspect that over the next two decades (or so), we are going to gravitate to the idea of a guaranteed basic annual income....to prevent the kind of revolutionary end result that our 'realist' Max thinks is inevitable. People like Max and Lukey will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into that 'socialist' world, but they will be dragged nonetheless.
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You're lying again, Leroy. What a bullshit artist teacher you must be.

I'd happily go into the "Star Trek universe", but there are certain requirements to make it work. I've posted on this before. Do you recall what some of those requirements are? Hint: It doesn't involve rainbows and/or unicorns.
 
idle time is associated with criminal activity, even if "basic human needs" are provided for.

this has been demonstrated over and over, not just in welfare families in the inner cities, but also the affluent muslims who flock to join terrorist movements; teens who commit crimes during summer vacation ("hands up - don't shoot - I just robbed the mini mart")
 
Max R. said:
1. Correct. However it can be delivered with kindness and without. You specialize in "without".

2. Bullshit. Your constant hatred for "Zionists" is just code for "[Unwelcome language removed] Jews". And why not? Your heroes in the Third Reich hated them too.

Click to expand...

I say it as I see it --- In your case I just occasionally give you a wee taste of your own medicine --- If you think I have been unfair to you, I can only reply that I have been more than temperate in my words to you. I might have been kind as a child but I never could see another person being bullied without stepping in - as I see you doing, bullying others, all of the time. And it is an odd thing how bullies, when faced up too, cry 'you hurt my feelings' so easily.

Nope - I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I do not speak or write in code.
 
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