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About that 2nd amendment.

Gramps

Mayor
If, as it says, a militia is one of the main purposes for citizens to keep and bear arms them there's a lot of misinformed people making of it what it isn't.

The NRA, as one example, is not concerned with arming as militia. Their goal to to arm everyone so they might revolt idf things to go to please them, which is the opposite of a militia's purpose.

There again, the millions who do own and keep arms aren't necessaily against arms control as are a radical few who twist the real meaning of the 2nd amendment to suit their fancies.

Taken word for word the meaning is actually quite clear and was proposed at a time when the militias of the revolution played a prominant part in securing the freedoms we enjoy today. It was a time of musket balls and powder horns and a host of calibers which many owners had to cast their own ammo for because availability for any certain size wasn't a given as it is today.

BUT, what I see occuring is a festering movement that is anti-government by a limited number of gun activists who insist on keeping and bearing weapons that they mistakingly believe make them a match for auhority should an occasion arise where they'd decided to challenge that auhority and I say to them, "don't make me laugh".

Given their goals we would evolve into an armed camp on a nationwide basis and no one would be safe from gun-toting kooks. Now they want to sponsor gun glaases for teachers. Are you kidding me? Back in the days of yore teach might've slapped a pupils's hands with a ruler, or worse yet, sent them to sit on a stool in the corner wearing a dunce camp, but that hardly compares to teach with a six-shooter strapping to their hip and saying, "sit down and shut up or you'll know what's good for you" to unruly students who tax their nerves simply because guns change moods considerably.

I wonder, through the years, how many interpretations of the 2nd amendment have been handed down by courts when, truth be told, the wording of the 2nd is quite clear. And, I for one, get weary of hearing these wanna-bes daring the government to "pry" their guns from a "dead hand that grips them". Right there you have it; a 'dead hand' which means to deal was comsumated to a just conclusion.

If you really want to bear arms in the interest of your nation the recruiting stations will gladly review your talents and if you pass muster you, too, can become a hero BUT you don't need to take you weapons along. They will provide them along with a course of training on not only the proficiency of weapons but give you a hunting license to kill people in the pursuit of your duties.

Have you ever killed anyone?

Gramps
 
You don't have to bear arms in the interest of your nation. You have an individual right to keep and bear arms that has nothing to do with participation in any militia.

If, however, you wish to participate in a militia, but don't wish to be in the National Guard, that is provided for under U.S. law, too.

Under 10 USC Chapter 13: "STATUTE-
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.
" (Emphasis in bold added).
 
so to sum up -

you appear to reject any concept of "the natural right" of citizens to own a firearm, in defense of an oppressive government, as envisioned by the founding fathers?

do you also then reject any "natural rights" to marriage (gays); abortion (the penumbra of privacy); or drinking any size soda you can afford?

i'm interested in how people define which rights we're entitled to, and which one the constitution allows politicians to take away on a whim.
 
If, as it says, a militia is one of the main purposes for citizens to keep and bear arms them there's a lot of misinformed people making of it what it isn't.

The NRA, as one example, is not concerned with arming as militia. Their goal to to arm everyone so they might revolt idf things to go to please them, which is the opposite of a militia's purpose.

There again, the millions who do own and keep arms aren't necessaily against arms control as are a radical few who twist the real meaning of the 2nd amendment to suit their fancies.

Taken word for word the meaning is actually quite clear and was proposed at a time when the militias of the revolution played a prominant part in securing the freedoms we enjoy today. It was a time of musket balls and powder horns and a host of calibers which many owners had to cast their own ammo for because availability for any certain size wasn't a given as it is today.

BUT, what I see occuring is a festering movement that is anti-government by a limited number of gun activists who insist on keeping and bearing weapons that they mistakingly believe make them a match for auhority should an occasion arise where they'd decided to challenge that auhority and I say to them, "don't make me laugh".

Given their goals we would evolve into an armed camp on a nationwide basis and no one would be safe from gun-toting kooks. Now they want to sponsor gun glaases for teachers. Are you kidding me? Back in the days of yore teach might've slapped a pupils's hands with a ruler, or worse yet, sent them to sit on a stool in the corner wearing a dunce camp, but that hardly compares to teach with a six-shooter strapping to their hip and saying, "sit down and shut up or you'll know what's good for you" to unruly students who tax their nerves simply because guns change moods considerably.

I wonder, through the years, how many interpretations of the 2nd amendment have been handed down by courts when, truth be told, the wording of the 2nd is quite clear. And, I for one, get weary of hearing these wanna-bes daring the government to "pry" their guns from a "dead hand that grips them". Right there you have it; a 'dead hand' which means to deal was comsumated to a just conclusion.

If you really want to bear arms in the interest of your nation the recruiting stations will gladly review your talents and if you pass muster you, too, can become a hero BUT you don't need to take you weapons along. They will provide them along with a course of training on not only the proficiency of weapons but give you a hunting license to kill people in the pursuit of your duties.

Have you ever killed anyone?

Gramps

If a gun changes an individuals mood, then that is an individual who probably shouldn't be carrying one. Carrying has always caused me to be very circumspect in my behavior; I won't engage in so much as an argument for fear it might escalate. Many people who carry (legally) are the same way, but not all. Still, until someone does wrong, they shouldn't be restricted or punished. We certainly shouldn't try to restrict people who haven't done wrong.

And yes, I have...
 
Another good 'un, Gramps.

You can tell by the non-responsive, diversionary replies so far. They'll be arguing about everything but your obvious point.... that the Second Amendment isn't a bulletin board for wackos. Its language isn't ambiguous if you put its intention in context with when it was written.
 
We certainly shouldn't try to restrict people who haven't done wrong.

You mean like mass murderers who had no previous criminal record but were known to be disturbed nonetheless?
 
We certainly shouldn't try to restrict people who haven't done wrong.

You mean like mass murderers who had no previous criminal record but were known to be disturbed nonetheless?

Price of living in a free country, Zzig; ask for a mental eval if you know someone who's acting screwy, don't propose national legislation.
 
20 murdered little kids...."the price of freedom".

Keep going with that one. I couldn't sully y'all more for trying.
 
20 murdered little kids...."the price of freedom".

Keep going with that one. I couldn't sully y'all more for trying.

[video=youtube;U-Y0SMitMpk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Y0SMitMpk[/video]
 
Show me the part about sacrificing children to gun nuts. They're singing about soldiers....you know....volunteers....adults, too. You're grasping....and sinking. Surrender comes in many forms around here.

Daylight again, following me to bed
I think about a hundred years ago, how my fathers bled
I think I see a valley, covered with bones in blue
All the brave soldiers that cannot get older been askin' after
you
Hear the past a callin', from Ar- -megeddon's side
When everyone's talkin' and noone is listenin', how can we
decide?

(Do we) find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground

Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down
Find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground
Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down
(Find the cost of freedom buried in the ground)
 
Show me the part about sacrificing children to gun nuts. They're singing about soldiers....you know....volunteers....adults, too. You're grasping....and sinking. Surrender comes in many forms around here.

Daylight again, following me to bed
I think about a hundred years ago, how my fathers bled
I think I see a valley, covered with bones in blue
All the brave soldiers that cannot get older been askin' after
you
Hear the past a callin', from Ar- -megeddon's side
When everyone's talkin' and noone is listenin', how can we
decide?

(Do we) find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground

Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down
Find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground
Mother earth will swallow you, lay your body down
(Find the cost of freedom buried in the ground)

I am neither grasping nor sinking. The beautiful rendition I offered did not include the opening stanza...and the remaining lyrics remain perfectly suitable to the idea of the price of freedom as reflected by the arguments on the right. They simply dismiss these deaths...and claim you are standing on their graves.
 
yep, the most stupid part imo is the way many of them are for arming the tyrannical gov they must one day lock horns with that make their peashooters worthless.

My understanding is that the Heller decision determining an individual right was a departure from the jurisprudence before it that gave weight to the militia thing
 
Do you know who founded the NRA and why?

If, as it says, a militia is one of the main purposes for citizens to keep and bear arms them there's a lot of misinformed people making of it what it isn't.

The NRA, as one example, is not concerned with arming as militia. Their goal to to arm everyone so they might revolt idf things to go to please them, which is the opposite of a militia's purpose.

There again, the millions who do own and keep arms aren't necessaily against arms control as are a radical few who twist the real meaning of the 2nd amendment to suit their fancies.

Taken word for word the meaning is actually quite clear and was proposed at a time when the militias of the revolution played a prominant part in securing the freedoms we enjoy today. It was a time of musket balls and powder horns and a host of calibers which many owners had to cast their own ammo for because availability for any certain size wasn't a given as it is today.

BUT, what I see occuring is a festering movement that is anti-government by a limited number of gun activists who insist on keeping and bearing weapons that they mistakingly believe make them a match for auhority should an occasion arise where they'd decided to challenge that auhority and I say to them, "don't make me laugh".

Given their goals we would evolve into an armed camp on a nationwide basis and no one would be safe from gun-toting kooks. Now they want to sponsor gun glaases for teachers. Are you kidding me? Back in the days of yore teach might've slapped a pupils's hands with a ruler, or worse yet, sent them to sit on a stool in the corner wearing a dunce camp, but that hardly compares to teach with a six-shooter strapping to their hip and saying, "sit down and shut up or you'll know what's good for you" to unruly students who tax their nerves simply because guns change moods considerably.

I wonder, through the years, how many interpretations of the 2nd amendment have been handed down by courts when, truth be told, the wording of the 2nd is quite clear. And, I for one, get weary of hearing these wanna-bes daring the government to "pry" their guns from a "dead hand that grips them". Right there you have it; a 'dead hand' which means to deal was comsumated to a just conclusion.

If you really want to bear arms in the interest of your nation the recruiting stations will gladly review your talents and if you pass muster you, too, can become a hero BUT you don't need to take you weapons along. They will provide them along with a course of training on not only the proficiency of weapons but give you a hunting license to kill people in the pursuit of your duties.

Have you ever killed anyone?

Gramps
 
I like how the anti-gun crowd on this thread ignored my citation of the actual law regarding the militia. Never let facts get in the way of good propaganda, I guess.
 
Forgive me. I thought Frey had responded with that in response to:

20 murdered little kids...."the price of freedom".

I'll try to pay more attention.
 
That's one of the great song ever written. The version on the album, however, has a much better musical introduction.
 
Don't knock over any headstones when you get tired of standing on all those graves

Nor you when you're pissing on them.
 
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