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Are Mormons Christians?

NightSwimmer

Senator
What Would A Mormon Say?

I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian
By DAVID V. MASON
NYT

Excerpt:


I am confident that I am not the only person — Mormon or Christian — who has had enough of the acrimonious niggling from both sides over the nature of the trinity, the authority of the creeds, the significance of grace and works, the union of Christ’s divinity and humanity, and the real color of God’s underwear. I’m perfectly happy not being a Christian. My Mormon fellows, most of whom will argue earnestly for their Christian legitimacy, will scream bloody murder that I don’t represent them. I don’t. They don’t represent me, either.

I’m with Harry Emerson Fosdick, the liberal Protestant minister and former pastor of Riverside Church in Manhattan, who wrote that he would be “ashamed to live in this generation and not be a heretic.” Being a Christian so often involves such boorish and meanspirited behavior that I marvel that any of my Mormon colleagues are so eager to join the fold.

In fact, I rather agree with Richard D. Land, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, who calls Mormonism a fourth Abrahamic religion, along with Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Being set apart from Christianity in this way could give Mormonism a chance to fashion its own legacy.

Christianity, you’ll recall, had to fight the same battle. Many early Christians grew up reading the Torah, living the law, observing the Sabbath and thinking of themselves as Jews. They were aghast to find that traditional Judaism regarded them as something else entirely.

In addition, these Christians had to defend their use of additional scripture and their unconventional conception of God and explain why they were following a bumpkin carpenter from some obscure backwater. Early Christianity’s relationship with non-Jews was even worse. Roman writers frequently alluded to rumors about the cannibalistic and hedonistic elements of early Christian rites. One after the other, Christians went to the lions because they found it impossible to defend themselves against such outrageous accusations. They did eat flesh and drink blood every Sunday, after all.

Eventually, Christianity grew up and conceded that it wasn’t authentic Judaism. Lo and behold, once it had given up its claim to Judaism, it became a state religion — cannibalism notwithstanding — and spent the next 1,700 years getting back at all the bullies who had slighted it when it was a child.

Eventually, Mormonism will grow up. Maybe a Mormon in the White House will hasten that moment when Mormonism will no longer plead through billboards and sappy radio ads to be liked, though I suspect that Mr. Romney is such a typical politician that, should he occupy the Oval Office, he’ll studiously avoid the appearance of being anything but a WASP. This could set back the cause of Mormon identity by decades.

Whatever happens in November, I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power.
 
Mormon "acceptance" much less the religion's mere existance...scares the crap out of rightwing evangelical/fundy Protestants (probably Catholics) too.

It's growing internationally and is well-funded and has a theology that is more appealing (due to being more "modern"...dating back "only" 150 years).

Politically, the only thing the Religious Right fear more is a 2nd Term for President Obama.....if Mitt was running against a non-incumbent or even against a VP Joe Biden in 2016....he wouldn't stand a chance of getting more than 20-25% of the Religious Right votes.

But the RR's leadership (and a fair amount of racism) has got their paranoia hyped up to a near-hysteric level so that fear of "a Mormon President using his power to push his CULT religion" has been swamped.

But it is a fact....if Romney wins? Mormonism will become even more prominent and likely more of interest to people and more accepted.....and that will panic the evangey/fundy Christians.
 
Given a choice between a Mormon Republican and a Muslim Democrat, I'll pick the Mormon. Mormons are not setting off bombs in restaurants and shopping areas, killing innocent people; and they are not doing their dead level best to bankrupt America.
Mormons have not sold guns to Mexican drug cartels that have been used to murder Border Patrol Agents. Mormons have not given billions of dollars of taxpayer money to political cronies and they have not granted amnesty to illegal aliens in violation of the constitution.

Mormons have not purposely created a burdensome unemployment/underemployment rate in order to make people dependent on the government, so they will vote Democrat. Mormons have not leaked national security secrets to make themselves look good for a coming election.
 
See, Night? Jack admits it. If Romney WASN'T "running against a Muslim Marxist".....Jack's enthusiasm to vote for him might not be as strong.

Same deal on secular politics. "Pure conservatives" like Jack (who desperately hoped that Bachmann....then Perry....then Newton Leroy would "save" him from Mitt getting the Nom).....eventually had to SURRENDER to Romney as their "default"....despite fears of Mitt selling them out and going RINO once in the Oval Office.

Same for the Religious Right....they "just know" that "If Obama is re-elected" he'll "make Churchs perform gay marriages, set up abortion clinics in kindergartens, and ban Christians from speaking!!!!".....so their fear of a Mormon President is over-shadowed.

Without a "boogeyman" Democrat to run against....Romney would be toast.
 
Given a choice between a Mormon Republican and a Muslim Democrat, I'll pick the Mormon. Mormons are not setting off bombs in restaurants and shopping areas, killing innocent people; and they are not doing their dead level best to bankrupt America.
Mormons have not sold guns to Mexican drug cartels that have been used to murder Border Patrol Agents. Mormons have not given billions of dollars of taxpayer money to political cronies and they have not granted amnesty to illegal aliens in violation of the constitution.

Mormons have not purposely created a burdensome unemployment/underemployment rate in order to make people dependent on the government, so they will vote Democrat. Mormons have not leaked national security secrets to make themselves look good for a coming election.

Yeah actually no one is doing what you claim, but hey when you're a tin foil hat person, no one will ever be able to get you to accept truth.
 
Unless, of course, he were running against a White, born in the USA, Liberal.

Nawww, Jack. Obama's race certainly helps Romney (your Birtherism comment clearly indicates where you're coming from). If it wasn't for the "image" of "a black guy being a TWO term President of MY country"....you'd be sitting home on Election Day saying "Eff 'em. I'll let RINO Romney lose and watch a REAL conservative come back and easily win in 2016! Newt will be tanned, rested, and ready!"

Same deal for the Religious Right....If Romney was running against Joe Biden as Prez....they'd never "risk" a Mormon President and "that cult" being given "legitimacy".

And even if Romney wins?....every religious aspect or event of the Romney White House will scare the piss out of them and conspiracy theories will arise and the RRs will be saying "He's going to use his power to destroy REAL Christianity!!!!"

:)
 
Yeah actually no one is doing what you claim, but hey when you're a tin foil hat person, no one will ever be able to get you to accept truth.

Yeah actually, Barack Obama is doing exactly what I claimed. And now he has allowed the DOJ to hide its crimes behind Executive Privilege, after chastising the Bush Administration for using EP in 2007.
 
Nawww, Jack. Obama's race certainly helps Romney (your Birtherism comment clearly indicates where you're coming from). If it wasn't for the "image" of "a black guy being a TWO term President of MY country"....you'd be sitting home on Election Day saying "Eff 'em. I'll let RINO Romney lose and watch a REAL conservative come back and easily win in 2016! Newt will be tanned, rested, and ready!"

Same deal for the Religious Right....If Romney was running against Joe Biden as Prez....they'd never "risk" a Mormon President and "that cult" being given "legitimacy".

And even if Romney wins?....every religious aspect or event of the Romney White House will scare the piss out of them and conspiracy theories will arise and the RRs will be saying "He's going to use his power to destroy REAL Christianity!!!!"

:)

Nope, if a Black Conservative were running against a White Liberal, I would vote for the Black Conservative.
 
Nope, if a Black Conservative were running against a White Liberal, I would vote for the Black Conservative.

Gee, that's great, Jack.....EXCEPT...

the Republican Party has never and WILL NEVER (for atleast another generation)....nominate an African-American for President.

They keep "teasing" they will....Alan Keyes....Herman Cain....talk about JC Watts or Allen West....but when your average Republican Primary voters goes into the booth, they always end up voting for a WHITE guy for their Nominee.
 
No worries Jack. I am sure Mr Gargoyl will covert you all, Muslims too, to Mormonism once he is Prez ......

Jack and the Religious Righties have been made too scared of PROTESTANT President Obama....to remember to be scared of MORMON Mitt "using his bully pulpit to legitimize his cult."

That will be one of the few "small comforts" if Romney wins in the Fall....watching as the Obama Deranged (esp. among the Religious Right) slowly wake up from their celebration....and stare in horror as THE PRESIDENT goes into a Church which has "secret levels" that the general public and even many Mormons can't enter. Or when Mitt appoints a lot of LDS Church folks to key foreign policy positions..."putting them in a position to use American power and tax money to evangelize Mormonism across the world".

The paranoia would be delicious to watch. :)
 
Given a choice between a Mormon Republican and a Muslim Democrat, I'll pick the Mormon. Mormons are not setting off bombs in restaurants and shopping areas, killing innocent people; and they are not doing their dead level best to bankrupt America.
Mormons have not sold guns to Mexican drug cartels that have been used to murder Border Patrol Agents. Mormons have not given billions of dollars of taxpayer money to political cronies and they have not granted amnesty to illegal aliens in violation of the constitution.

Mormons have not purposely created a burdensome unemployment/underemployment rate in order to make people dependent on the government, so they will vote Democrat. Mormons have not leaked national security secrets to make themselves look good for a coming election.

It is to be noted that the majority that are taking issue with Romeny and Mormonism are the left. Yet who has critized Obama lately for years in Rev. Wright's church of hyperbole or the fact that in the three years that Obama has been in office he has not aligned himself and his family with a church in the D.C. Metro area. The Constitution state that religion is not a condition for holding office. That is unless you are on the left.
 
Actualy, ORR...a RASMUSSEN poll done last year showed that a solid number of those who identified themselves as "conservative Christians" said they would ...

"never vote for a Mormon for high political office".


It was only after Romney was on the track to winning it...or actually being ANNOINTED by the RNC....that those numbers started to fall and RIGHTwing preachers who had warned about Mormons and called LDS a "cult" began to change their tune......again, at the behest of the RNC.

Naturally Romney's religion never mattered to you....just his dermal melanin count.

:)
 
Another "if Romney wins"?....within a year? Mitt will be forced to do a major interview (on Fox of course, so it's "easy")....to fully and completely explain his Church.

Not for "the left"...but for nervous nellies on the Religious Right, who now sobered up from their "We got rid of the Kenyan Kommie Muslim" party.....are starting to get worried about having a "Temple Mormon" as their President....MORE than they were ever really worried about Obama being a "radical Black Liberationist"...or a "Muslim"...or a "religion-hating atheist".

Tax cuts and promises of "anti-Roe judges" won't be enough for them.
 
Another "if Romney wins"?....within a year? Mitt will be forced to do a major interview (on Fox of course, so it's "easy")....to fully and completely explain his Church.Not for "the left"...but for nervous nellies on the Religious Right, who now sobered up from their "We got rid of the Kenyan Kommie Muslim" party.....are starting to get worried about having a "Temple Mormon" as their President....MORE than they were ever really worried about Obama being a "radical Black Liberationist"...or a "Muslim"...or a "religion-hating atheist".

Tax cuts and promises of "anti-Roe judges" won't be enough for them.

And why would he have to do that? Obama never explained his Muslim religion; in fact he has lied about it.
 
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