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Benghazigateless

Arkady

President
If anyone had honestly still been under the impression that Benghazi was a real scandal on not a faux outrage manufactured by a bunch of hypocritical Republican partisans, the questioning of Hillary Clinton should have put that to a rest. There was such a dramatic (and hilarious) gulf between the substance (nit-picking critiques, along with obsessing over stuff that didn't make one bit of difference), and the rhetoric (which sounded like what you might expect in the aftermath of an attack that left hundreds or thousands dead).

Look, there's no question mistakes were made in the lead-up to that attack. When you look back at pretty much any event where people were killed, you're going to identify missteps, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I'm all for doing a close investigation into these events -- even the small-scale ones that leave only three or four Americans dead, like Benghazi. That's how we learn and improve operations in the future. But that's not what these hearings are about. They aren't about better understanding missteps in order to avoid them in the future, they're about conducting a witch-hunt in the hopes of partisan advantage. At first they were about forcing Obama to give up on his first choice for the Secretary of State position. Now they're about trying to tarnish Hillary Clinton ahead of a possible 2016 presidential run.

It would be easy to suggest that partisans of both sides do this kind of thing -- building mountains out of molehills to hurt their political opponents. But there really is a noticeable difference between the parties. Take the attacks on Sana'a, Yemen. Do you remember those? Probably not, because Democrats never turned the investigations into media circuses for partisan gain. But there were two separate attacks on our embassy in Yemen. The first killed two people and the second killed 19. Since they happened on Bush's watch, there was of course no Republican-led witch-hunt. There were quieter investigations aimed at identifying improvements we could make in the future.

Karachi is another example. There were four separate attacks on the same consulate, with one resulting in twelve deaths, and the fourth attack resulting in the death of our diplomat, David Foy. The zealots howling for scandal in the wake of Benghazi were quiet after the Karachi consulate attacks, as well as after the Jeddah raid on a diplomatic compound that killed 9, and a number of other similar deadly attacks in recent years. Why? Because Bush was president and attacks like that are only scandalous if a Democrat is president.

Imagine if Benghazi weren't a single, isolated attack. Imagine that the same facility had been attacked three prior times, over the course of Obama's four years, with two of those resulting in deaths. Imagine that only after those prior attacks did the attack take place that resulted in the death of our ambassador. That would make it very similar to what happened in Karachi during the Bush years. If the same pattern of repeated deadly attacks and repeated failures to secure the facility had preceded the Benghazi attack, the Republicans would have gone absolutely insane. But in Karachi the Republicans were in charge, so it was no big deal.

The US is a very big and extraordinarily engaged nation. Between our embassies and consulates, we have about 300 diplomatic facilities around the world, many in remote hot-spots where providing adequate security is difficult. That's why there have always been successful attacks on our diplomatic missions. It's dangerous work. The law of averages say that even with competent management we'll have security failures and bad judgment calls, from time to time, that leave some Americans dead. Nobody's perfect. It's always been that way, and the best we can do is work on improving operations by learning from past mistakes. The good news is that attacks on our diplomatic missions have been relatively uncommon during the Obama years:

awww.motherjones.com_files_images_diplomatic_attacks4.png

And it's further good news the attacks that have taken place have been relatively unsuccessful -- leaving just a handful of people dead, rather than the hundreds or thousands that have been killed in other terrorist attacks over the years. We've seen nothing, so far, like the Clinton-era embassy bombings, much less the Reagan-era bombing in Beruit. Maybe we have, in fact, learned some lessons.
 
Funny thing is, I don't remember all this ginned-up outrage over attacks on our embassies, consulates, and diplomatic missions, during the Bush years. [BOTH George Senior and George Junior.]

I'm thinking it must have something to do with which political party the President represents.

Just a wild guess, of course.

Edit: Sorry. I just looked at the graph and didn't read your entire post before replying. You covered all these points, already.
 
well said arky.

The simple truth of the matter is that we can only do what we can do, and unless we're willing to go with all bunkers immune to suicide bombers, etc, shit is going to happen.
 
So, this one is behind us.

What's next?

Republicans have been struggling to create a scandal for the Obama administration since 2008. Frankly, I'm surprised that they've performed as poorly as they have. Just how competent and ethical can an executive branch administration be, after all? Surely they've actually done something wrong by now?
 
So, this one is behind us.

What's next?

Republicans have been struggling to create a scandal for the Obama administration since 2008. Frankly, I'm surprised that they've performed as poorly as they have. Just how competent and ethical can an executive branch administration be, after all? Surely they've actually done something wrong by now?

Sigh. If ONLY Barack Obama would go get hisself a blow job from one of his interns.......
 
well said arky.

The simple truth of the matter is that we can only do what we can do, and unless we're willing to go with all bunkers immune to suicide bombers, etc, shit is going to happen.

Yep. And that's the attitude we have when a Republican is president. Absent a really gigantic death toll or a patently unforgivable mistake, we take the view that shit happens, and the best we can do is learn from it. Hell, even in some cases where there is a gigantic death toll or a patently unforgivable mistake (as with 9/11), we seldom engage in Republican-style witch-hunting during Republican administrations. It's only when Democrats are president that any mistakes and any deaths are used this shamelessly for partisan purposes.
 
Naaah, not a scandal.

I guess when you have American dead, misleading reasons, ignored warnings, breaches to American security and intelligence assets, administration officals spreading misinformation and covering evidence to further a presidential campaign, and partisan stonewalling on question and answer sessions it's supposed to be swept under the rug.

You think wrongdoing was perpetrated and not followed up under Bush's watch? Blame YOUR side for their silence and sheepishness.

The rest of us will continue to respect the call for accountability.
 
So, this one is behind us.

What's next?

Republicans have been struggling to create a scandal for the Obama administration since 2008. Frankly, I'm surprised that they've performed as poorly as they have. Just how competent and ethical can an executive branch administration be, after all? Surely they've actually done something wrong by now?

It reminds me of the Clinton years. Even with the UNPRECEDENTED partisan dragnet conducted by Ken Starr for years, looking for absolutely anything he could use against Clinton, the Republicans ultimately had to settle for mere trivia: that the guy had lied about some consensual blowjobs. That's shocking, when you think about it. How many of us would look that good if someone like Ken Starr were to pore over our life for years with a big staff, subpoena powers, millions of dollars of funding, and the willingness to prosecute our friends and loved ones mercilessly to try to get them to provide evidence against us? I think most people here would end up looking pretty dirty with that kind of investigation into our whole loves, dating back from decades-old business deals to up-to-the-moment details of our sex lives. You'd at least find some tax evasion or mingling of work and personal funds, or something like that. It's all the more likely we'd look dirty if we'd come from the notoriously corrupt Arkansas political and business environment. But Clinton came away looking shockingly clean. It looks like maybe Obama will, too, despite his Chicago background. Four years into a full-court partisan press for scandal, they're still coming up empty.

In the case of Obama, part of their problem may be that they've wasted vast resources on an extraordinarily silly line of inquiry: his supposed birth in Kenya, or whatever other spin they could come up with to try to make him seem foreign and ineligible for the presidency. At least with Clinton they were smart to pursue something that (wrongly) seemed likely to pay off: the intersection of land deals and political power in a backwards state. With Obama, they've been diving head-long into their own navels for four years, so the fact they haven't found anything yet doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing to be found, if they could get over their racism long enough to trace more promising leads, rather racially-tinged ones.
 
Naaah, not a scandal.

I guess when you have American dead, misleading reasons, ignored warnings, breaches to American security and intelligence assets, administration officals spreading misinformation and covering evidence to further a presidential campaign, and partisan stonewalling on question and answer sessions it's supposed to be swept under the rug.

You think wrongdoing was perpetrated and not followed up under Bush's watch? Blame YOUR side for their silence and sheepishness.

The rest of us will continue to respect the call for accountability.

Yes, exactly, it's not a scandal. Thanks for catching up.
 
there was a time when Republicans behaved like the loyal opposition and partisanship ended at the water's edge.

Richard Lugar epitomized that position, but today's repub freaks made sure he and his kind were no more.
 
No problem-o.

I've gottten used to responding to the pahological, excuse-making, head-up-their-ass left.

Nothing is a scandal until the person is found guilty or bounced from the party like John Edwards or jim Traficant. Until then, there's no amount of calisthenics or sycophancy the left won't go through to protect the lowest form of life in America- the Democrat.
 
Consider another incident.

In November of 2000, a group of Al Quiada terrorists blew a hole in the side of the USS Cole, killing 17 American sailors and injuring 19 more.

It took the CIA six months to definitively determine that Al Quada was at fault for that attack.

There were not Senate hearings demanding why we didn't instantly know who caused that attack.

No Democatic Senator would falsely accuse the Secetary of State of watching the whole thing in real time.

And, when the new (Bush) adminstration reacted to the CIA's findings by doing nothing at all, there was no outcry from either side.
 
administration officals spreading misinformation and covering evidence to further a presidential campaign, and partisan stonewalling on question and answer sessions

Yet dispite having access to all the record, and months to conduct investigations, the Republicans produced no evidence that any of that happened, and were instead reduced to flogging allegations, working talking points and grandstanding.
 
Absolutely, McCain did.

He said the administration's version did not agree with what was said behind closed doors. It didn't agree with the media reports from the night it occurred, and differed from what the Libyan President said happened. What the admin said happen didn't match up to any witness testimony nor did it match the video from the attack.

But nice try.
 
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