Buckle up darlin's
- Thread starter Queen Titania
- Start date
Barbella
Senator
There's always two sides, right? First of all... the law says you HAVE to wear your seat belt. Why not follow the law? If you don't, you can expect to get pulled over... and it's your own fault.
Secondly, when drivers get pulled over, whether they agree with the reason for the stop or they don't, they must comply with lawful requests of the police.
You don't argue with the cops. You comply.
Queen Titania
Senator
She said in the beginning they were too scared because the Cops had pulled a gun on them and they had children in the back - they did not seem unreasonable people to me -
hey the Law? there isn't any -
Barbella
Senator
LOL... Hubby and I got pulled over a week or two ago for using a cell phone while driving. We did exactly what the cop told us to do...
What other choice do white people have in this country? None.
connieb
Senator
Wow, that certainly seems excessive.
This is a problem WE as a society have created. As we have asked more and ore for more laws to protect us from ourselves, we have given over authority of ourselves to the state who then feels they have a right to exercise that authority.
While I agree with Barb the best way to get through a traffic stop is to shut up and take what they give you, at the same time, I don'tthink that mouthing off or even defiance - particularly in connection with non-violent citation - should EVER be met with that force from the officer.
Barbella
Senator
Absolutely agreed, connie. It SHOULDN'T be... but we know it MIGHT be, due to various reasons: the proliferation of guns among criminals and idiots... the rampant hostility not only towards cops but the general population as well... the overall loss of respect for authority, each other, and human life....
It's not a nice, friendly, cheerful and carefree world any more, and while the police definitely overreact far too often these days, can you place the blame solely on them? I don't think so.... cops have the same desire to live another day that everyone else has...
Queen Titania
Senator
American Cops always scared me ;-) Their reaction was extreme especially with children in the back -
Barbella
Senator
Certainly it was extreme. But you gotta give them a break... they, too, want to go home to their families at the end of the day, and more and more it's becoming a crap shoot for them...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385458/cop-killed-every-58-hours-michelle-malkin
Queen Titania
Senator
They stopped a couple with two children in the back of the car with their guns in hand - the couple said they were too scared to get out because of the guns - and bash and he hit him too - children screaming in terror - over a seat belt?
Barbella
Senator
They got pulled over because of a seat belt violation. The window was smashed because they locked the car doors and rolled up the window, refusing to comply with the officers' requests.
How did those cops know what was in that car? I imagine they figured those people had something to hide... most likely either weapons, or drugs. Why else would they lock the doors?
What were the cops supposed to do? Simply let them go? Wait until the guy produces a possible weapon and starts shooting (it wouldn't be the first time that happened)?
Like I said... do what the cops ask you to do in the first place. Period.
fairsheet
Senator
A Seattle police officer punched a young woman a few years back. It was shown through the intertubes. It seems 4 young people were jaywalking. The cop called out to them to stop. They refused his command. Eventually one of the women suggested that the cop should have sex with himself. The cop attempted to restrain her. In the ensuing melee, the cop through a punch at the girl (it glanced off).
Of course that citizen film clip was shown everywhere and was not a pretty picture. After all, they were just jaywalking, right? But..do we really want to signal to anyone, that if they want to escape justice, all they have to do is ignore and insult the cop?
connieb
Senator
I'll admit Barb that I struggle between understanding why cops over-react, and at the same time, feeling like tough shit that is the job they signed up for.
My opinion though is that the more interactions you force police to have with the public in a rule enforcer role rather than a community helper role, the more you stoke this antagonization. And, that is the result of two public policies - first - increasing the amount of laws that they have to enforce, and encouragement to enforce things that most cops would probably ignore by making them revenue streams.
What should the police have done, given the driver and passengers refusal to exit, the locking of doors, and closureof the windows?
(I am not defending the police...i find their actions excessive and they should face whatever discipline and charges deemed appropriate)...however...back to my question...
connieb
Senator
But, Barb, that is where they went wrong. They need probable cause. They can't just assume because you didn't want to talk to them that you have something to hide. They can't say - oh you ran, you must have soemthing to hide, the NYPD had to stop "stop and frisk" becuase it was a civil rights violation and it was. You can't just pull someone over and without any other basis say, eh well you may have drugs or guns in the car. THAT is not how police are supposed to operate. And, I really don't want a system taht encourages them otherwise EVEN if it means a hell of a lot of criminals go free.
Queen Titania
Senator
Those who had been pointing a gun at a family in their car should have backed off and possibly a female officer, or a higher grade officer, should have been called for. It had become a diplomatically fraught situation bought about by the Police themselves which should have been quelled by diplomacy -
And if you say they don't have time for such things, then they should have controlled their tempers in the first place -
Queen Titania
Senator
And if every time some one on here insulted any other of us we jumped through the screen and punched them that would be ok? Being called names is no excuse for one who is supposed to keep order to physically attack anyone.
Barbella
Senator
Here's the thing... disrespect for authority only grows as it goes on...
So... next time a cop pulls someone over for whatever violation, that person can just lock the car doors, close the windows, and refuse to cooperate? How long do the cops stand there and try to get then to change their minds? Should they just say "oh, to hell with it", and drive off, themselves?
What do you think the police should do? I need to know for the next time I get pulled over... LOL
Barbella
Senator
But wouldn't "probable cause" be their refusal to cooperate? If you got nothing to hide, why NOT cooperate?
fairsheet
Senator
One of the fundamental tenets of our joining into civil and democratic society, is that we concede our "right" to enforce the law, to the state. Cops do a job for us - one we consciously hired them to do. Therefore, at least in this specific context, the cop is different from you and me.
Sure, we can dispute that and argue in defense of our own "civil right" to not have to show due respect to a cop. In doing so though, I think we should ask ourselves if that helps the cop do the job we've asked him to do. Like lots of people, my perspective on this one has evolved over the years, in favor of respect for the cop. Surprisingly, my tilt towards respect for the cop hasn't cost me a thing in terms of my "rights"!
Sure, we can dispute that and argue in defense of our own "civil right" to not have to show due respect to a cop. In doing so though, I think we should ask ourselves if that helps the cop do the job we've asked him to do. Like lots of people, my perspective on this one has evolved over the years, in favor of respect for the cop. Surprisingly, my tilt towards respect for the cop hasn't cost me a thing in terms of my "rights"!
