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Church, Here’s Why People Are Leaving You.

Caroljo

Caroljo

Senator
Something to think about.......

Many reasons given here are also the reasons we left the Church.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having FUN at Church. But there's a time for fun,
and a time for learning and listening to the Word of God. Too many are turning political for one thing.
Another thing is, their main goal is to attract young people...which is good. But they seem to leave out
the important lessons and aim to "entertain" them to keep them there. Church's have forgotten what
their goal should be....teaching the word of God & showing us how our lives should be, what God wants us
to be.

These are only my opinions, and how I see what's going on. I'm sure there's others and I'd like to hear them.
I think most of the big "New Age" Church's that have come about are in it more for the money than teaching. Make the people feel good, make everything "happy, happy" and they'll give more money. The Bible is not all "happy, happy" and we need to be taught the good and the bad. But too many people just don't want to hear the "bad". They don't want to hear that they're sinners. They don't want to hear that they're being hypocrites, or possibly doomed to Hell for their sins. But that's all part of it...if it wasn't supposed to be known, or taught, it wouldn't be in there.

Church, Here’s Why People Are Leaving You. Part 1

Being on the other side of the Exodus sucks, don’t it?
I see the panic on your face, Church.
I know the internal terror as you see the statistics and hear the stories and scan the exit polls.
I see you desperately scrambling to do damage control for the fence-sitters, and manufacture passion from the shrinking faithful, and I want to help you.
You may think you know why people are leaving you, but I’m not sure you do.
You think it’s because “the culture” is so lost, so perverse, so beyond help that they are all walking away.
You believe that they’ve turned a deaf ear to the voice of God; chasing money, and sex, and material things.
You think that the gays and the Muslims and the Atheists and the pop stars have so screwed-up the morality of the world, that everyone is abandoning faith in droves.
But those aren’t the reasons people are leaving you.
They aren’t the problem, Church.
You are the problem.
Let me elaborate in 5 ways…

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2014/08/15/church-heres-why-people-are-leaving-you-part-1/
 
This is an interesting article. I don't know anything about the author or his views, but he makes some worthwhile points in this piece.
 
Caroljo said:
Something to think about.......

Many reasons given here are also the reasons we left the Church.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having FUN at Church. But there's a time for fun,
and a time for learning and listening to the Word of God. Too many are turning political for one thing.
Another thing is, their main goal is to attract young people...which is good. But they seem to leave out
the important lessons and aim to "entertain" them to keep them there. Church's have forgotten what
their goal should be....teaching the word of God & showing us how our lives should be, what God wants us
to be.

These are only my opinions, and how I see what's going on. I'm sure there's others and I'd like to hear them.
I think most of the big "New Age" Church's that have come about are in it more for the money than teaching. Make the people feel good, make everything "happy, happy" and they'll give more money. The Bible is not all "happy, happy" and we need to be taught the good and the bad. But too many people just don't want to hear the "bad". They don't want to hear that they're sinners. They don't want to hear that they're being hypocrites, or possibly doomed to Hell for their sins. But that's all part of it...if it wasn't supposed to be known, or taught, it wouldn't be in there.

Church, Here’s Why People Are Leaving You. Part 1

Being on the other side of the Exodus sucks, don’t it?
I see the panic on your face, Church.
I know the internal terror as you see the statistics and hear the stories and scan the exit polls.
I see you desperately scrambling to do damage control for the fence-sitters, and manufacture passion from the shrinking faithful, and I want to help you.
You may think you know why people are leaving you, but I’m not sure you do.
You think it’s because “the culture” is so lost, so perverse, so beyond help that they are all walking away.
You believe that they’ve turned a deaf ear to the voice of God; chasing money, and sex, and material things.
You think that the gays and the Muslims and the Atheists and the pop stars have so screwed-up the morality of the world, that everyone is abandoning faith in droves.
But those aren’t the reasons people are leaving you.
They aren’t the problem, Church.
You are the problem.
Let me elaborate in 5 ways…

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2014/08/15/church-heres-why-people-are-leaving-you-part-1/
Click to expand...


Caroljo I tend to agree more with what you wrote than with what the author of the piece wrote. It seems you and I agree with one of his points about all the work churches do to lure people in while they abandon the message, but then he goes off into an opposite direction. While you're saying that the churches have to hold true to the word of God and teach it, he's implying, pretty strongly, that the churches are judging and therefore being unwelcoming to folks who are committing the sins they teach about. What seems to be at the heart of his piece is this notion that the churches ought to pick and choose and triage among which sins and which issues are the most minor and which are the most urgent--all based on his opinion--and part of the reason they're losing folks is because they're perseverating on "trivial" things as he puts it.

There are plenty of churches that minister "in the streets" as he puts it. And plenty that ignore the issues he calls "trivial". If what he were saying were true, then the churches that teach all the things he feels they feel should teach and ignore all the things he feels they should ignore, would have packed houses all the way out into their parking lots every week. but they're not experiencing the crowds his logic dictates that they should be.

There are a couple hundred million believers in this country alone, yet church attendance among them is quite low. This guy pulled five things he doesn't like about organized religions and claims they are the reasons people don't go. I think it's a bit more complicated than that.
 
I think it's more complicated too....
I know I always used to feel GOOD going to Church. I would leave there feeling uplifted and thanking God for all He does. Before leaving our Church, I would leave wondering what I got out of that! A few of our friends and us will get together as often as we can for Bible study, in our homes. I get soooooo much more out of it than I did at Church...and that's kinda sad. I know we're told that in the end times, most all "Church's" will be in people homes. Christians will be considered evil (i think it's coming to that now). There's so much hatred toward Christians today. Or maybe we just hear more of it because of the media.

It worries me what people are actually being taught in some Church's. There are some pretty awful preachers out there right now....and in my opinion one of the worst is Joel Olsteen. There's a few more I could list...but there are also some pretty good ones like Billy & Franklin Graham, and I especially like Charles Stanley!
 
Very good article. So much of that reflects how I feel. It is very hard when what you think should be a healing place becomes an arena of them vs. Us.

The constant harangue of, " You do it my way,or all is lost," is not much of a message. And I have heard those very words from the Pulpit and else where.
 
Caroljo said:
Something to think about.......

Many reasons given here are also the reasons we left the Church.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having FUN at Church. But there's a time for fun,
and a time for learning and listening to the Word of God. Too many are turning political for one thing.
Another thing is, their main goal is to attract young people...which is good. But they seem to leave out
the important lessons and aim to "entertain" them to keep them there. Church's have forgotten what
their goal should be....teaching the word of God & showing us how our lives should be, what God wants us
to be.

These are only my opinions, and how I see what's going on. I'm sure there's others and I'd like to hear them.
I think most of the big "New Age" Church's that have come about are in it more for the money than teaching. Make the people feel good, make everything "happy, happy" and they'll give more money. The Bible is not all "happy, happy" and we need to be taught the good and the bad. But too many people just don't want to hear the "bad". They don't want to hear that they're sinners. They don't want to hear that they're being hypocrites, or possibly doomed to Hell for their sins. But that's all part of it...if it wasn't supposed to be known, or taught, it wouldn't be in there.

Church, Here’s Why People Are Leaving You. Part 1

Being on the other side of the Exodus sucks, don’t it?
I see the panic on your face, Church.
I know the internal terror as you see the statistics and hear the stories and scan the exit polls.
I see you desperately scrambling to do damage control for the fence-sitters, and manufacture passion from the shrinking faithful, and I want to help you.
You may think you know why people are leaving you, but I’m not sure you do.
You think it’s because “the culture” is so lost, so perverse, so beyond help that they are all walking away.
You believe that they’ve turned a deaf ear to the voice of God; chasing money, and sex, and material things.
You think that the gays and the Muslims and the Atheists and the pop stars have so screwed-up the morality of the world, that everyone is abandoning faith in droves.
But those aren’t the reasons people are leaving you.
They aren’t the problem, Church.
You are the problem.
Let me elaborate in 5 ways…

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2014/08/15/church-heres-why-people-are-leaving-you-part-1/
Click to expand...

Thought-provoking article, indeed.
Church has become a social club and the Sunday Show.
Church-goers become a team that (pretend to )follow the same rules (and don't recognize each other in liquor stores).
Church is a place that collects your money to build a better place for you to attend that Sunday Show.
The God that once was worshiped and praised has been relegated to a small box of hard-core rules that is danced around on Sunday.

Seeking God?
No. The Church has him in that little [figurative] Box. We know what God is. No seeking necessary.

And yes.
There are other places to get a better show than down at the corner church.
 
Caroljo said:
I think it's more complicated too....
I know I always used to feel GOOD going to Church. I would leave there feeling uplifted and thanking God for all He does. Before leaving our Church, I would leave wondering what I got out of that! A few of our friends and us will get together as often as we can for Bible study, in our homes. I get soooooo much more out of it than I did at Church...and that's kinda sad. I know we're told that in the end times, most all "Church's" will be in people homes. Christians will be considered evil (i think it's coming to that now). There's so much hatred toward Christians today. Or maybe we just hear more of it because of the media.

It worries me what people are actually being taught in some Church's. There are some pretty awful preachers out there right now....and in my opinion one of the worst is Joel Olsteen. There's a few more I could list...but there are also some pretty good ones like Billy & Franklin Graham, and I especially like Charles Stanley!
Click to expand...

I haven't heard Joel Osteen in about 10 years. When I did listen to him, he seemed uplifting. What happened?

I have problems with the "name it and claim it" preachers and I am not a fan of that 700 Club guy whose name eludes me right now.
 
Jen said:
I haven't heard Joel Osteen in about 10 years. When I did listen to him, he seemed uplifting. What happened?

I have problems with the "name it and claim it" preachers and I am not a fan of that 700 Club guy whose name eludes me right now.
Click to expand...

I listened to Olsteen a few times when he was pretty "new".....and I just got a bad feeling from him. He seemed to preach all "feel good" stuff, but never seemed to get into the really important parts of the Bible. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I just didn't care for what he said. And I always wondered where this guy came from. It seemed all of a sudden he had a huge mega church, and had all these hundred (thousands?) of followers. I tried to give him a chance, but there is just something about him I don't trust.
 
Caroljo said:
I listened to Olsteen a few times when he was pretty "new".....and I just got a bad feeling from him. He seemed to preach all "feel good" stuff, but never seemed to get into the really important parts of the Bible. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I just didn't care for what he said. And I always wondered where this guy came from. It seemed all of a sudden he had a huge mega church, and had all these hundred (thousands?) of followers. I tried to give him a chance, but there is just something about him I don't trust.
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about Olsteen either......... I think his father was a minister and he followed the footsteps or something. And it is true that all of his sermons are of the "feel good" type. They aren't necessarily biblical. They just work to make people feel good about themselves. My husband and I watched his show for a short while about 10 years ago and that was the comment we made about him just before we stopped watching. It was nice feel good stuff, but just fluff, no meat. I don't have a negative or positive thought about him........ but I wouldn't send him money.
 
MaryAnne said:
Very good article. So much of that reflects how I feel. It is very hard when what you think should be a healing place becomes an arena of them vs. Us.

The constant harangue of, " You do it my way,or all is lost," is not much of a message. And I have heard those very words from the Pulpit and else where.
Click to expand...

We went to a Nazarene Church for a few years and really liked it. But, we kept seeing things happen that didn't seem quite right. There was an older woman that played the piano there for YEARS and she loved it. She could afford much, but that was her contribution. Some new young people started coming to church, many were very musically inclined and they joined the music group. Next thing we knew, one Sunday morning the minister called the older lady up front, gave her some flowers and thanked her for her services.....so he was dismissing her from playing the piano any longer. They left and never came back. We did the same. There was NO reason for it.

Years ago it was against the church laws (for Nazarene's) to dance, go to movies, play cards.....all man made rules. Most rules in a Church (I believe) are man made. Nowhere in the Bible do you see these things as sins.
 
Caroljo said:
We went to a Nazarene Church for a few years and really liked it. But, we kept seeing things happen that didn't seem quite right. There was an older woman that played the piano there for YEARS and she loved it. She could afford much, but that was her contribution. Some new young people started coming to church, many were very musically inclined and they joined the music group. Next thing we knew, one Sunday morning the minister called the older lady up front, gave her some flowers and thanked her for her services.....so he was dismissing her from playing the piano any longer. They left and never came back. We did the same. There was NO reason for it.

Years ago it was against the church laws (for Nazarene's) to dance, go to movies, play cards.....all man made rules. Most rules in a Church (I believe) are man made. Nowhere in the Bible do you see these things as sins.
Click to expand...

The Nazarene church is of the Holiness movement. They believe that once a person accepts Christ, that person no longer sins and if the person does sin, it is a break with his/her Christian experience. I grew up in a church like that. The rules are man-made and geared to set a good example.

While it is a good thing to set a good example, man-made rules on things that aren't biblical aren't a good idea. I grew up not going to movies, not playing cards, not dancing............ and of course, no drinking of alcohol in my household. And we couldn't even say "heck" or "darn" or "gosh". Sheeeesh!

Our family attended a Free Methodist church for a while when the kids were small. That church had "initiate" members and "covenant" members. The covenants were the "better than thou" members. I was on the church board as treasurer for a while and I played keyboard (keyboard, piano or organ) for church but I couldn't be a Covenant member because the pastor knew I played Dungeons and Dragons.

Rules like that are stupid but I wouldn't have wanted to be a covenant member anyway because it makes me feel a little queasy to think of being one of the "better than you" people.
 
Jen said:
I haven't heard Joel Osteen in about 10 years. When I did listen to him, he seemed uplifting. What happened?

I have problems with the "name it and claim it" preachers and I am not a fan of that 700 Club guy whose name eludes me right now.
Click to expand...

Pat Robertson, one of the worst.
 
Caroljo said:
We went to a Nazarene Church for a few years and really liked it. But, we kept seeing things happen that didn't seem quite right. There was an older woman that played the piano there for YEARS and she loved it. She could afford much, but that was her contribution. Some new young people started coming to church, many were very musically inclined and they joined the music group. Next thing we knew, one Sunday morning the minister called the older lady up front, gave her some flowers and thanked her for her services.....so he was dismissing her from playing the piano any longer. They left and never came back. We did the same. There was NO reason for it.

Years ago it was against the church laws (for Nazarene's) to dance, go to movies, play cards.....all man made rules. Most rules in a Church (I believe) are man made. Nowhere in the Bible do you see these things as sins.
Click to expand...
That is your little cliques . One of the main problems in Churches today. Becomes a power struggle. Can tear a good Church part , then you have the Minister,who thinks he is a Dictator.

Denomination means little to me,but it does kill me to hear others tear down another. Man made rules do not bother me,I tend to make my own rules. The Ten Commandments do for me,although I fail many times
 
MaryAnne said:
That is your little cliques . One of the main problems in Churches today. Becomes a power struggle. Can tear a good Church part , then you have the Minister,who thinks he is a Dictator.

Denomination means little to me,but it does kill me to hear others tear down another. Man made rules do not bother me,I tend to make my own rules. The Ten Commandments do for me,although I fail many times
Click to expand...

I don't care about man-made rules unless they pit the really GOOD Christians against the mediocre Christians......of the same church.
 
MaryAnne said:
That is your little cliques . One of the main problems in Churches today. Becomes a power struggle. Can tear a good Church part , then you have the Minister,who thinks he is a Dictator.

Denomination means little to me,but it does kill me to hear others tear down another. Man made rules do not bother me,I tend to make my own rules. The Ten Commandments do for me,although I fail many times
Click to expand...

If I were to go back to Church, it would be to a small non-denominational....just a plain Bible teaching church. I do enjoy the new Christian music a lot....absolutely love Need to Breathe!

Yes, I can't handle being told I'm a sinner if I don't abide by their man made rules. Like you, we have the Ten Commandments, and that's what I believe is God's laws. There are a lot of things the Bible warns us about that aren't good, but none of them are going to send you to hell.
 
Jen said:
I don't care about man-made rules unless they pit the really GOOD Christians against the mediocre Christians......of the same church.
Click to expand...

Do not take this wrong,Jen,but the Right Wing fanatics are one of the main problems. They are driving away those who want a Unified Church.

Every where I go people,all life long Church Supporters are leaving in droves. They do not like what is happening. Not just in Protestant Churches, Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic.

When Politics enter the Pulpit, churches are being destroyed within.

The Baptist Church is splitting into. Same in the Methodist. We had such a mess here during the last election. An Investigation by our local paper revealed just how angry people are about being told who to vote for.
 
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