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Conservative versus Liberal Media

Arkady

President
There are, obviously, glaring differences in the scope of conservative versus liberal media. Setting aside ostensibly non-partisan corporate media outlets and just looking at those that wear their liberal or conservative convictions more or less openly, conservative outlets dwarf liberal ones. There's a huge network of right-wing websites, talk radio shows, and conservative-movement magazines and think tanks, and nothing even close to that scope on the left. That's pretty broadly acknowledged, but I wanted to bring up another key difference: intellectual honesty.

Liberal media outlets certainly spin information in favor of their views. But they seldom just flatly lie about it, the way conservative media outlets do. And liberal media outlets show a willingness to grapple openly with new information and analysis that challenges liberal preconceptions, whereas conservative media outlets shunt such material out of consideration entirely.

To give you a specific example, consider a recent study by a Harvard economist, which attempted to determine whether black criminal suspects really are subjected to rougher treatment by police than white ones. The findings were challenging to both the liberal and the conservative viewpoint. Challenging to conservatives was that it seems to show that blacks really are subjected to harsher non-deadly treatment:

blog_fryer_use_force_black_white.jpg

Challenging to liberals was that it also seems to show that there's no statistically significant difference in how likely police are to shoot whites versus blacks.

Now, compare how that study was discussed in comparable liberal and conservative outlets:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...ts-police-shoot-whites-more-frequently-blacks

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437651/police-killings-racial-bias-not-proven

Mother Jones, the unabashedly liberal magazine, actually overstated the challenge posed by the study to liberal preconceptions. The Mother Jones link characterized it by saying "new study suggests police shoot whites more frequently." Only in a footnote does it clarify "The results weren't statistically significant, so technically Fryer's conclusion is that there's no difference between the shooting rate of whites and blacks."

The liberal columnist takes the challenging new information very seriously, and urges fellow liberals to do the same:

"Food for thought. Fryer is a careful and highly respected researcher, and he was motivated to conduct this study by the events in Ferguson a couple of years ago. Both of his conclusions are worth taking seriously and warrant further study."​

The National Review article, by comparison, focuses squarely just on the lethal-force finding (the one friendly to the conservative viewpoint). It handles the non-lethal-force finding (the one challenging to the conservative viewpoint) within a single parenthetical reference, announcing that it's outside the scope of the article and suggesting it's "weak."

The overall impression left by the two articles could hardly be more different. The National Review marginalizes the finding that's challenging to its perspective and overstates the one that's supportive of its perspective (not even mentioning the statistical significance issue). It's basically pre-digesting a new study and regurgitating it, so the right-wing baby birds won't choke on anything. It reads like a talking-points memo for conservative movement members. Mother Jones, instead, highlights the issue that's challenging to its readership, forcing them to really chew on it.

That's a very significant difference, and I think it's characteristic of liberal and conservative media. I believe it's a big part of why, when I argue with liberals, I generally find that they are well aware of the weak points in their side's arguments, and that they've really thought about them, whereas when I argue with conservatives, I so often find that even the most obvious challenging facts are landing on virgin ears. Liberal media may spin the facts to fit with their worldview, but they don't try to shelter their audience the way conservative media does. Liberal outlets don't bury tough new considerations in parentheticals or hand-wave them away: they confront those challenges directly.
 
I'm curious what sort of research Obama did before he made the statement that "It is easier for a teenager to get his hands on a Glock than a computer or even a book." Since your vaunted liberal media is ignoring this inflammatory and embarrassing remark, what do you think?
 
"conservative outlets dwarf liberal ones. "

and the proof of this is . . . all the major newspapers who endorsed Obama, and before him Kerry, Gore, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis . . . ?

And ABC, CBS, NBC . ..

you're not SERIOUSLY trying to make the case that some local AM radio talk show has the impact or reach of the NY Times or CBS, are you?

ARE YOU?
 
"conservative outlets dwarf liberal ones. "

and the proof of this is . . . all the major newspapers who endorsed Obama, and before him Kerry, Gore, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis . . . ?

And ABC, CBS, NBC . ..

you're not SERIOUSLY trying to make the case that some local AM radio talk show has the impact or reach of the NY Times or CBS, are you?

ARE YOU?

It depends on what spectrum we're talking about.

Arkady, being an EU globalist liberal, will think that even strong Democrat values are "Conservative".

However, given the American political spectrum, the mainstream media overall is solidly liberal, with a few Conservative strongholds mixed in.
 
Interestingly...and given the environment at hand... the likelihood of shooting...shows something different..
'But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.'
 
I'm curious what sort of research Obama did before he made the statement that "It is easier for a teenager to get his hands on a Glock than a computer or even a book." Since your vaunted liberal media is ignoring this inflammatory and embarrassing remark, what do you think?

Race baiters don't do research
13631569_1081027165313530_7658021109746051460_n.png
 
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well, the 13 year old black kid did get a gun when several broke into a Pawn Shop and stole 8 handguns to kill cops with...........guess Library was closed also...................

Ark you definitely lonely and bored and your rants prove that.
 
There are, obviously, glaring differences in the scope of conservative versus liberal media. Setting aside ostensibly non-partisan corporate media outlets and just looking at those that wear their liberal or conservative convictions more or less openly, conservative outlets dwarf liberal ones. There's a huge network of right-wing websites, talk radio shows, and conservative-movement magazines and think tanks, and nothing even close to that scope on the left. That's pretty broadly acknowledged, but I wanted to bring up another key difference: intellectual honesty.

Liberal media outlets certainly spin information in favor of their views. But they seldom just flatly lie about it, the way conservative media outlets do. And liberal media outlets show a willingness to grapple openly with new information and analysis that challenges liberal preconceptions, whereas conservative media outlets shunt such material out of consideration entirely.

To give you a specific example, consider a recent study by a Harvard economist, which attempted to determine whether black criminal suspects really are subjected to rougher treatment by police than white ones. The findings were challenging to both the liberal and the conservative viewpoint. Challenging to conservatives was that it seems to show that blacks really are subjected to harsher non-deadly treatment:

blog_fryer_use_force_black_white.jpg

Challenging to liberals was that it also seems to show that there's no statistically significant difference in how likely police are to shoot whites versus blacks.

Now, compare how that study was discussed in comparable liberal and conservative outlets:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...ts-police-shoot-whites-more-frequently-blacks

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437651/police-killings-racial-bias-not-proven

Mother Jones, the unabashedly liberal magazine, actually overstated the challenge posed by the study to liberal preconceptions. The Mother Jones link characterized it by saying "new study suggests police shoot whites more frequently." Only in a footnote does it clarify "The results weren't statistically significant, so technically Fryer's conclusion is that there's no difference between the shooting rate of whites and blacks."

The liberal columnist takes the challenging new information very seriously, and urges fellow liberals to do the same:

"Food for thought. Fryer is a careful and highly respected researcher, and he was motivated to conduct this study by the events in Ferguson a couple of years ago. Both of his conclusions are worth taking seriously and warrant further study."​

The National Review article, by comparison, focuses squarely just on the lethal-force finding (the one friendly to the conservative viewpoint). It handles the non-lethal-force finding (the one challenging to the conservative viewpoint) within a single parenthetical reference, announcing that it's outside the scope of the article and suggesting it's "weak."

The overall impression left by the two articles could hardly be more different. The National Review marginalizes the finding that's challenging to its perspective and overstates the one that's supportive of its perspective (not even mentioning the statistical significance issue). It's basically pre-digesting a new study and regurgitating it, so the right-wing baby birds won't choke on anything. It reads like a talking-points memo for conservative movement members. Mother Jones, instead, highlights the issue that's challenging to its readership, forcing them to really chew on it.

That's a very significant difference, and I think it's characteristic of liberal and conservative media. I believe it's a big part of why, when I argue with liberals, I generally find that they are well aware of the weak points in their side's arguments, and that they've really thought about them, whereas when I argue with conservatives, I so often find that even the most obvious challenging facts are landing on virgin ears. Liberal media may spin the facts to fit with their worldview, but they don't try to shelter their audience the way conservative media does. Liberal outlets don't bury tough new considerations in parentheticals or hand-wave them away: they confront those challenges directly.
Reminded me of this.

Good media, bad media. Good Ash, bad Ash.

 
conservative outlets dwarf liberal ones.

Nope.

Harvard Study: http://scholar.harvard.edu/barro/files/04_0614_liberalmedia_bw.pdf

A study by Americans for Democratic Action (a self-described liberal lobbying group)

Measure 1. Monitor voting records of U.S. senators and representatives.

Measure 2. Assign a Median Congress Member Score
  • On a 0-100 scale, 100 being the most liberal, 0 being the most Conservative.
  • The median member of the U.S. House had an ADA score of 39. Thus, 39 is a reasonable measure of a centrist position.
  • Among well-known senators Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) had a highly conservative score of 4, whereas Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) had a strikingly liberal score of 80.
Measure 3. Measure the tendency of Senate and House members in their speeches to cite 200 prominent think tanks.
  • The citations considered were those that referred favorably to a view or fact presented by a think tank.
  • Not counted were negative citations or those purely descript ive of a think tank's actions.
  • As an example, the Heritage Foundation was cited by legislators whose average ADA ratings were 6 -- that is, very conservative.
Also highly conservative were:
  • Family Research Council (6)
  • National Right to Life Committee (7).
Left-wing think tanks included:
  • Center on Budget & Policy Priorities (80)
  • Children's Defense Fund (77)
  • Economic Policy Institute (72).
Measure 4: the tendency of various media outlets to cite the same 200
think tanks.
  • The researchers considered only "news stories" -- not editorials, letters to the editor, and so on.
  • The periods covered ranged from 1990 to 2003.
  • Again, the citations were those that referred favorably to a view or fact provided by a think tank.
  • The researchers used this information to calculate a right- vs. left-wing indicator for each media outlet -- effectively, an ADA rating.
  • The assumption is that media outlets that refer favorably to conservative think tanks are reasonably characterized as conservative, whereas those that refer positively to liberal think tanks are plausibly labeled as liberal.
  • The final product (in a preliminary table provided by the authors) was a list of computed ADA ratings for the media outlets.
With a Median Score of 39:

NewsWeek: 72 (+33 Liberal bias)
USA Today: 62-64 (+23-25%)
New York Times: 62-64 (+23-25%)
Time Magazine: 62-64 (+23-25%)
CBS Evening News: 62-64 (+23-25%)
NBC Nightly News: 62-64 (+23-25%)

ABC WorldNews Tonight: 55 (+16%)
NPR Morning Edition: 55 (+16%)
The Washington Post: 53 (+14%)
CNN NewsNight: 49 (+10%)

NewsHour with Jim Lehrer: 41 (+2%)
ABC Good Morning America: 39 (-)
Washington Times: 34 (+5% Conservative Bias)
Fox News: 27 (+12%)

Bottom line: The Groseclose-Milyo study shows the media are skewed substantially to the left of the typical member of Congress. Thus, if the opinions of viewers and readers are similar to those of their representatives, the media slant is far to the left of that of most of their customers.

The mainstream media is dominantly Liberal. Even self-admitted Liberal lobbyist groups conducting studies in liberal academica hotbeds know it.
 
I'm curious what sort of research Obama did before he made the statement that "It is easier for a teenager to get his hands on a Glock than a computer or even a book." Since your vaunted liberal media is ignoring this inflammatory and embarrassing remark, what do you think?
I think his obvious hyperbole wasn't terribly interesting.
 
"conservative outlets dwarf liberal ones. "

and the proof of this is . . . all the major newspapers who endorsed Obama, and before him Kerry, Gore, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis . . . ?

And ABC, CBS, NBC . ..

you're not SERIOUSLY trying to make the case that some local AM radio talk show has the impact or reach of the NY Times or CBS, are you?

ARE YOU?
No, obviously not. I'm comparing conservative to liberal media, and I expressly excluded ostensibly non-partisan corporate media. I made that very clear in my top post. Try retreading.
 
Nope.

Harvard Study: http://scholar.harvard.edu/barro/files/04_0614_liberalmedia_bw.pdf

A study by Americans for Democratic Action (a self-described liberal lobbying group)

Measure 1. Monitor voting records of U.S. senators and representatives.

Measure 2. Assign a Median Congress Member Score
  • On a 0-100 scale, 100 being the most liberal, 0 being the most Conservative.
  • The median member of the U.S. House had an ADA score of 39. Thus, 39 is a reasonable measure of a centrist position.
  • Among well-known senators Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) had a highly conservative score of 4, whereas Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) had a strikingly liberal score of 80.
Measure 3. Measure the tendency of Senate and House members in their speeches to cite 200 prominent think tanks.
  • The citations considered were those that referred favorably to a view or fact presented by a think tank.
  • Not counted were negative citations or those purely descript ive of a think tank's actions.
  • As an example, the Heritage Foundation was cited by legislators whose average ADA ratings were 6 -- that is, very conservative.
Also highly conservative were:
  • Family Research Council (6)
  • National Right to Life Committee (7).
Left-wing think tanks included:
  • Center on Budget & Policy Priorities (80)
  • Children's Defense Fund (77)
  • Economic Policy Institute (72).
Measure 4: the tendency of various media outlets to cite the same 200
think tanks.
  • The researchers considered only "news stories" -- not editorials, letters to the editor, and so on.
  • The periods covered ranged from 1990 to 2003.
  • Again, the citations were those that referred favorably to a view or fact provided by a think tank.
  • The researchers used this information to calculate a right- vs. left-wing indicator for each media outlet -- effectively, an ADA rating.
  • The assumption is that media outlets that refer favorably to conservative think tanks are reasonably characterized as conservative, whereas those that refer positively to liberal think tanks are plausibly labeled as liberal.
  • The final product (in a preliminary table provided by the authors) was a list of computed ADA ratings for the media outlets.
With a Median Score of 39:

NewsWeek: 72 (+33 Liberal bias)
USA Today: 62-64 (+23-25%)
New York Times: 62-64 (+23-25%)
Time Magazine: 62-64 (+23-25%)
CBS Evening News: 62-64 (+23-25%)
NBC Nightly News: 62-64 (+23-25%)

ABC WorldNews Tonight: 55 (+16%)
NPR Morning Edition: 55 (+16%)
The Washington Post: 53 (+14%)
CNN NewsNight: 49 (+10%)

NewsHour with Jim Lehrer: 41 (+2%)
ABC Good Morning America: 39 (-)
Washington Times: 34 (+5% Conservative Bias)
Fox News: 27 (+12%)

Bottom line: The Groseclose-Milyo study shows the media are skewed substantially to the left of the typical member of Congress. Thus, if the opinions of viewers and readers are similar to those of their representatives, the media slant is far to the left of that of most of their customers.

The mainstream media is dominantly Liberal. Even self-admitted Liberal lobbyist groups conducting studies in liberal academica hotbeds know it.
Certainly the well known pro-factual bias of both Democrats and non-partisan outlets makes the Democrats less dependent on openly partisan outlets than Republicans are. But I posted specifically about openly partisan outlets, like the National Review and Mother Jones. When you compare the unapologetically liberal outlets to the unapologetically conservative ones, you see they each perceive their role differently. The liberal ones see their job as strengthening the liberal argument by way of informing it, even when that requires breaking some uncomfortable news to liberal readers -- information that challenges liberal assumptions. The conservative outlets, by comparison, see their job as handing the dummies their latest marching orders, by emphasizing any new material that echoes conservative dogma, while ignoring or waving away in passing anything that might prove challenging if examined too closely.
 
Of course you don't, because it made him look like the liar and fool that he is.
Nah. It just made him look like he was employing sloppy rhetoric for effect. I don't like hyperbole of that sort -- it's not particularly dishonest, since only the greatest of fools could imagine that he meant it literally, but it's also not terribly useful for illuminating the issues. I wish he'd stick to more literal analysis. But, it doesn't get me worked up one way or the other.
 
Nah. It just made him look like he was employing sloppy rhetoric for effect. I don't like hyperbole of that sort -- it's not particularly dishonest, since only the greatest of fools could imagine that he meant it literally, but it's also not terribly useful for illuminating the issues. I wish he'd stick to more literal analysis. But, it doesn't get me worked up one way or the other.

You tried that excuse when he lied about Obamacare, and it was just as ridiculous then as it is now. Given your role as a DNC propagandist, I realize you are required to take that approach, just know it's transparent and only serves to embarrass you even more.
 
You tried that excuse when he lied about Obamacare, and it was just as ridiculous then as it is now. Given your role as a DNC propagandist, I realize you are required to take that approach, just know it's transparent and only serves to embarrass you even more.
Ark has invoked "sloppy rhetoric" to defend Democrats time and again in this forum. He's quite the shill.
 
And while walking to the library he will past two or three guys willing to sell him a gun on the spots no library card needed.

That is what the president was talking about.

Then they should be locking those two or three guys away........is that how it is in Chicago where Θ Organized?
 
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