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Creationism

Boltlady

Boltlady

Governor
Since I haven't visited this site before I can only imagine that y'all have discussed this one quite a bit. Curiosity gets the best of me though as to how many people actually believe this. So I do have a question or two.

For the 'believers', how do you account for mutations? Since things that happened many thousands or millions of years ago may seem difficult to actually date by some schools of thought, mutations are an ongoing process, happening as we speak. Bacteria and viruses are particularly quick to mutate and do so according to their environment. That's why we're having to deal with all of those 'super bugs' now.

Mutations are not confined to microscopic things though. So how do you suppose they fit in with your scheme of things?
 
Nah you are wrong BoltLady ....God takes the stars out of the sky every morning and puts them back in again every night.

Leafing through a Rumi Anthology the other day ....thirteenth centuary not to forget

The Ascending Soul

I died as mineral and became a plant.
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was Man,
Why should I fear ? When was I less by dying ? .....
......... ( I'll write out the rest for anyone who wants to read it )

Now how did he know that before Darwin told us eh ? Tell me that ;) Bloody literalist Christianity !!!!
 
Queen, as you may have guessed, I am not a creationist. I am very curious about those who are though. It strikes me as quite a disconnect and yet a lot of supposedly educated people seem to actually promote it.

Came across the following article the other day about their museum needing more money. I find it scary that they're actually teaching kids this stuff as being reality. I can't help wondering what sorts of people buy into this.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/creation-museum-evolves-hoping-add-life-size-ark-170347907.html
 
It is an anathema ...........I have absolutly no understanding of it .and if we have any here, I have never met one .........If I do ever meet one I shall show them the way to the nearest cave ........
 
@boltlady

It appears you are talking about "young-earth" creationism. I do not know if any of the regulars here suscribe to such. Maybe JV-12, in an attenuated form. Is that what you mean, or do you in general mean any belief that a deity created the natural world?
 
nfp is basically right, Boltlady...you have to define WHICH "creationism" you are talking about

1. "Young Earth"...the ancient Bishop Ussur idea that the Earth and animal/plant life on it is only some 6000-10,000 years old..."same as" Mankind (i.e. Adam & Eve). Thus ignoring all geological evidence even basic physical science.

2. "Old Earth"....that the Earth and animal and plant life are millions of years old, but that Man has only appeared "in his current state" in the last 10K or so. Typically this involves also dismissing all proto-humans (even proto-Cromagnons) as "mutant apes", but it doesn't dismiss the entirety of geological science.

and newest but not leastest 3. "ID"....that an "Intelligent Designer" guided stellar, planetary, and biological evolution from the Big Bang onwards. Most IDers accept evolution (mostly) but claim "the Designer" and not random chance guided us to the traditional time-line for life and the development of Mankind we accept as science.
 
nfp guy said:
@boltlady

It appears you are talking about "young-earth" creationism. I do not know if any of the regulars here suscribe to such. Maybe JV-12, in an attenuated form. Is that what you mean, or do you in general mean any belief that a deity created the natural world?
Click to expand...

Well I didn't realize that there are different schools of thought on that school of thought! That is that animals and humans were each inserted in their present form a few thousand years back. It kind of makes me think that we're like a large terrarium or ant farm. At least so far as some folks seem to believe.

For my part, I'm with the evolution crowd based on survival needs at the time and place. My curiosity is still in effect as to what people do believe.
 
I think you'll discover that most folks who believe in literal creationism (of the Adam & Eve variety) are not fond of discussing their beliefs with non-believers.
 
NightSwimmer said:
I think you'll discover that most folks who believe in literal creationism (of the Adam & Eve variety) are not fond of discussing their beliefs with non-believers.
Click to expand...

You're very probably right on this, but I would think that if they really believe it they would want to make their case.
 
gabriel said:
why??
Click to expand...

OK, I'll bite;-)

For a person to believe in creationism (whichever kind), he/she would have to be pretty religious. Generally, very religious people believe that their religion is the only 'right' one. As such they are usually pretty quick to tell you why.
 
Boltlady said:
Queen, as you may have guessed, I am not a creationist. I am very curious about those who are though. It strikes me as quite a disconnect and yet a lot of supposedly educated people seem to actually promote it.

Came across the following article the other day about their museum needing more money. I find it scary that they're actually teaching kids this stuff as being reality. I can't help wondering what sorts of people buy into this.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/creation-museum-evolves-hoping-add-life-size-ark-170347907.html
Click to expand...

"...what sorts of people buy into this." Boltlady, check with your next door neighbor, or better yet, go to a fundamentalist church. Some of these "believers" probably know better but the religious meme is so ingrained that they just go with the flow.
 
GordonGecko said:
nfp is basically right, Boltlady...you have to define WHICH "creationism" you are talking about

1. "Young Earth"...the ancient Bishop Ussur idea that the Earth and animal/plant life on it is only some 6000-10,000 years old..."same as" Mankind (i.e. Adam & Eve). Thus ignoring all geological evidence even basic physical science.

2. "Old Earth"....that the Earth and animal and plant life are millions of years old, but that Man has only appeared "in his current state" in the last 10K or so. Typically this involves also dismissing all proto-humans (even proto-Cromagnons) as "mutant apes", but it doesn't dismiss the entirety of geological science.

and newest but not leastest 3. "ID"....that an "Intelligent Designer" guided stellar, planetary, and biological evolution from the Big Bang onwards. Most IDers accept evolution (mostly) but claim "the Designer" and not random chance guided us to the traditional time-line for life and the development of Mankind we accept as science.
Click to expand...

Gordon, I believe it was a judge who said Intelligent Design was just Creationism dressed in a tuxedo.
 
RedCloud said:
"...what sorts of people buy into this." Boltlady, check with your next door neighbor, or better yet, go to a fundamentalist church. Some of these "believers" probably know better but the religious meme is so ingrained that they just go with the flow.
Click to expand...

You make a very good point here. In fact I believe the same thing applies in a lot of the political arguments also. People do tend to go with the flow even when they don't really agree, they just think they're supposed to.
 
Boltlady said:
You make a very good point here. In fact I believe the same thing applies in a lot of the political arguments also. People do tend to go with the flow even when they don't really agree, they just think they're supposed to.
Click to expand...

Right on, Boltlady!
 
Boltlady said:
You make a very good point here. In fact I believe the same thing applies in a lot of the political arguments also. People do tend to go with the flow even when they don't really agree, they just think they're supposed to.
Click to expand...

So many people don't want to think . They just want everything in place and live their lives. It has always been so .......we are not all philosophers but there are those who misuse the trust of the many.
 
Boltlady said:
You're very probably right on this, but I would think that if they really believe it they would want to make their case.
Click to expand...

Well, there's the rub, Boltlady. Deep down inside, they understand that they don't really believe these fairy tales, but they are fearful that maybe... just maybe... there is a glimmer of truth in the old superstitions. Therefore, they set about to pull the wool over God's eyes and pretend to believe... Just in case.

Now, how in the world are you going to fool an omniscient God if you allow Him to catch you red-handed in the act of doubting -- or even stepping up to the threshold of questioning your "beliefs"? Hoodwinking God is a tricky business. One must remain on their toes at all times! ;)
 
RedCloud said:
Gordon, I believe it was a judge who said Intelligent Design was just Creationism dressed in a tuxedo.
Click to expand...

Pretty much...though I'd call that guy in a tuxedo...a "con-man."

Basically ID is a "back door" way of getting creationism "back in schools" by dressing it up as "science" and not fully denying evolution. Naturally calling ID "science" is prima facie a LIE....it's religion, plain and simple. And that means you are teaching religion as science, albeit Deism, in the public schools....which naturally is the TRUE agenda of the IDers.
 
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