Do YOU want cheaper gas ????

[Citizen]

Sen. Sanders Leads Effort to Clamp Down on
Oil Speculators
Rampant speculation has artificially pushed up gasoline prices to nearly $4 a gallon. Sen. Bernie Sanders “is fighting back,” ABC News reported. A letter signed by 70 members of Congress – 23 senators and 47 members of the House – told federal regulators to enforce provisions of the Wall Street reform law and curb speculation in crude oil markets.

They stressed that gasoline prices are up despite high supplies and low demand. According to the Energy Information Administration, the supply of oil and gasoline is greater today than it was three years ago, when the national average price for a gallon of gasoline was just $1.90. Today, the national average is more than $3.70 a gallon at a time when the demand for oil in the U.S. is at its lowest level since April of 1997.

Citing a recent report from Goldman Sachs, a major oil speculator, Forbes magazine said excessive oil speculation adds $.56 to the price of a gallon of gas. Exxon Mobil, the Saudi Arabian government, the American Trucking Association, Delta Airlines, the Petroleum Marketers Association of America and the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis agree excessive oil speculation significantly increases oil and gasoline prices.




:tongue1::smokin::yo:

 

[fairsheet]

There's no plausible way of doing away with oil speculation in general. What we CAN do however, is return ourselves to the old rules that required oil speculators to take actual delivery of the product. So sure....speculate that a million barrels of oil will cost $1 more, 6 months from now. But, know that 6 months from now, you'd damn well better have a place to store that million barrels that you're gonna be paying a buck more for!

 

[Lukey]

It's the $$$ people:

 

[fairsheet]

I'm no expert in these affairs - by any stretch. But, my guess is that "speculation" probably ends up evening itself out. For every period we go through in which we pay more than the market might otherwise demand, we probably go through an equal opposite period in which we pay somewhat less than the market might otherwise demand.

That's not to suggest though, that we shouldn't endeavor to smooth these swings out a tad, by returning ourselves to the former oil speculation regime that required the speculators to take actual delivery.

 

[Woolleybugger]

When we moved to Paris in 92, our gas was 4 bucks a gallon. We made it work. But we had a fantastic public transport system to help us. America needs to develop mass transit and better urban planning. The reason we need gas is because we don't live near our jobs...move us to the jobs and the gas issue goes away.

 

[degsme]

It's the $$$ people:

View attachment 531

Be nice if we could see what all those lines stood for.

 

[Citizen]

Be nice if we could see what all those lines stood for.

C'mon now, don't confuse right wingers by asking for actual facts

 

[degsme]

C'mon now, don't confuse right wingers by asking for actual facts

Well Lukey has a habit of posting stuff that doesn't actually support his claims. Just making sure that what he posts is something more than charts say of... air pressure in a bicycle tyre as mapped against temperature.. an passes it off as a chart about gasoline prices.

 

[Lukey]

Be nice if we could see what all those lines stood for.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2008/dollar-oil-inverse-12-11-08.jpg

 

[Lukey]

Well Lukey has a habit of posting stuff that doesn't actually support his claims. Just making sure that what he posts is something more than charts say of... air pressure in a bicycle tyre as mapped against temperature.. an passes it off as a chart about gasoline prices.

LOL! Me? That sounds more like you!

 

[degsme]

LOL! Me? That sounds more like you!

I notice we haven't seen you post the links themselves yet.

 

[degsme]

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2008/dollar-oil-inverse-12-11-08.jpg

Ah OK - light crude prices trading in the opposite direction ad the dollar... yes and?

 

[Lukey]

Ah OK - light crude prices trading in the opposite direction ad the dollar... yes and?

https://www.politicaljack.com/forum...t-high-gas-prices-in-2008&p=252077#post252077

 

[degsme]

Of course - it's generally the direction of the dollar that determines oil prices:

Ah excpet the chart shows no such causality. There is correlation, but that's mostly because oil is a WW commodity and is denominated in the value of the World's Reserve Currency.

The World's reserve currency is the US Dollar.

Oil prices can go up based on reductions in Supply (Iran's threats) increases in Demand (economic recovery) or a slide in the value of the reserve currency (dollar weakening). Only the latter is causal. The former two are simply correlative.

That you don't distinguish says quite a bit. Notice that in your chart, the oil price spike TRAILS the dollar low by some 3 mos.

Furthermore the Drop in the value of the dollar is a 12% slide from its peak meanwhile the oil price fluctiation in that same time period is 115%.

That means that there isn't the kind of linear correlation you claim exists - To get that apparent correlation in the slope of the curves, you had to pick data that seletively ploted the two graphs in a DIFFERENTIALLY SCALED manner.

to do that validly you have to justify the vailidty of the differentiated scaiing. Something you have not done here.


So gain the question is

Yes and?

 

[ya-ta-hey]

Sen. Sanders Leads Effort to Clamp Down on
Oil Speculators
Rampant speculation has artificially pushed up gasoline prices to nearly $4 a gallon. Sen. Bernie Sanders “is fighting back,” ABC News reported. A letter signed by 70 members of Congress – 23 senators and 47 members of the House – told federal regulators to enforce provisions of the Wall Street reform law and curb speculation in crude oil markets.

They stressed that gasoline prices are up despite high supplies and low demand. According to the Energy Information Administration, the supply of oil and gasoline is greater today than it was three years ago, when the national average price for a gallon of gasoline was just $1.90. Today, the national average is more than $3.70 a gallon at a time when the demand for oil in the U.S. is at its lowest level since April of 1997.

Citing a recent report from Goldman Sachs, a major oil speculator, Forbes magazine said excessive oil speculation adds $.56 to the price of a gallon of gas. Exxon Mobil, the Saudi Arabian government, the American Trucking Association, Delta Airlines, the Petroleum Marketers Association of America and the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis agree excessive oil speculation significantly increases oil and gasoline prices.




:tongue1::smokin::yo:

Mr. Citizen,

How exactly is that going to keep all other oil speculators in the world from not doing it?

 

[ya-ta-hey]

When we moved to Paris in 92, our gas was 4 bucks a gallon. We made it work. But we had a fantastic public transport system to help us. America needs to develop mass transit and better urban planning. The reason we need gas is because we don't live near our jobs...move us to the jobs and the gas issue goes away.

Mr. Woolie,

Great Idea. We should tear down all American cities unless they are within 60 miles of the next American city.

 

[degsme]

Mr. Woolie,

Great Idea. We should tear down all American cities unless they are within 60 miles of the next American city.

You didn't really read what Wooley said did you? The issue isn't INTER City transport but Suburb to Center transport. Seattle is JUST starting to build a light rail system. Its Mass transit is a confusing mess of bus routes that get stucik in the same traffic as cars. Whereas even in NYC the amount of train commuters is more like that of a European city.

 

[degsme]

Mr. Citizen,

How exactly is that going to keep all other oil speculators in the world from not doing it?

An important point. Its also important to understand that when say Southwest Airlines signs a long term price contract for fuel - they too are engagnig in "speculation". And United's choice not to is ALSO speculation. The two are speculating in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS but they still are "speculating" about the future.


The issue isn't speculation - but rather MANIPULATION and that's a differnt issue.

 

[Lukey]

Ah excpet the chart shows no such causality. There is correlation, but that's mostly because oil is a WW commodity and is denominated in the value of the World's Reserve Currency.

The World's reserve currency is the US Dollar.

Oil prices can go up based on reductions in Supply (Iran's threats) increases in Demand (economic recovery) or a slide in the value of the reserve currency (dollar weakening). Only the latter is causal. The former two are simply correlative.

That you don't distinguish says quite a bit. Notice that in your chart, the oil price spike TRAILS the dollar low by some 3 mos.

Furthermore the Drop in the value of the dollar is a 12% slide from its peak meanwhile the oil price fluctiation in that same time period is 115%.

That means that there isn't the kind of linear correlation you claim exists - To get that apparent correlation in the slope of the curves, you had to pick data that seletively ploted the two graphs in a DIFFERENTIALLY SCALED manner.

to do that validly you have to justify the vailidty of the differentiated scaiing. Something you have not done here.


So gain the question is

Yes and?

I said "generally." Yes, other factors come into play and that is the reason for the "noise" in these two charts. But oil is a commodity, and as such, over the long term, much (but not all) of the movement in its price is going to be currency related. Or are you suggesting that a central bank debasing its currency isn't going to lead to an increase in commodity inflation because that monetary policy supports your leftist, demand side economic theories?

 

[ya-ta-hey]

You didn't really read what Wooley said did you? The issue isn't INTER City transport but Suburb to Center transport. Seattle is JUST starting to build a light rail system. Its Mass transit is a confusing mess of bus routes that get stucik in the same traffic as cars. Whereas even in NYC the amount of train commuters is more like that of a European city.

Mr. D,

You did not read what he said. He said exactly that, that he wants to tear down all American cities that aren't close to where job centers are, then stack people like cordwood around those job centers.